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  #11  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:51 PM
milesdyson milesdyson is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

i dont always bet turn FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH. But I can't fault it I Guess- given the Turn bet yes I think the river is fine.
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  #12  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:54 PM
Apanage Apanage is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

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Both the responses so far seem really weak. In a blind vs. blind situation, are we really supposed to read a turn raise as meaning he holds the one card in the deck that beats us?

We should be concentrating on getting value out of the second nuts here vs. villain's range, which includes every other heart + some non-heart hands.

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Maybe so.But:

1.You donīt know how he is playing.
2.He is just calling flop
3.Your turn bet on a 4-flush board in a 3BB pot should really scare him if he hasnīt got a high heart.If he has a heart and it is not the ace then he is in a kind of WA/WB situation where he will be concerned that you might have one of the at least two better hearts possible.And at the same time he should be concerned of folding out worse hands in a small pot.I see no meaning for him to raise

If you are comfortable with 3 more bets going into the pot then go ahead and checkraise river.Personally I would rather donk river if I thought he could be spewy.

But I donīt understand what kind of answer you want from us.
You obviously have to call his 3-bet on river.

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I don't see how him calling the flop makes it more likely he has it.

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If he is calling flop and raising turn it is obvious that he has a heart. It was said that villain would have non-flush hands in his range.I donīt agree at all.
Which heart he has is of course impossible to determine but it is reasonable to think that he wouldnīt raise turn with many hearts for reasons stated above.
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:59 PM
MacGuyV MacGuyV is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

I'm just saying tons of players will raise the flop w/ the nut draw...it sounds like you're assuming that he knew the turn would be a heart.
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2007, 11:07 PM
Apanage Apanage is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

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I'm just saying tons of players will raise the flop w/ the nut draw...it sounds like you're assuming that he knew the turn would be a heart.

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I donīt know what youīre talking about. I didnīt say that many villains wouldnīt raise the flop with a heart in their hand.Although I would think it would be extremely dumb to raise flop with Ahx.Because we arenīt folding a better hand and we could still induce bluffs by calling.

I was talking about the specific action of calling the flop AND raising the turn which IMO is pointing strongly towards a heart.
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  #15  
Old 11-14-2007, 12:26 AM
Nick C Nick C is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

Instead of responding blind, I went ahead and read through what people had said.

And, well, NL must be messing with my limit instincts, because the river looks spewy to me.

And, having said that, I'll admit that the alternatives all have their drawbacks as well. Still, the best losing hand Villain can have is JhXx, and he is up against a PFR who could easily have the Kh or Ah. (However, I do recall coming to the conclusion when I was playing 3/6 and then 5/10 regularly that SB open-raises from unknowns are practically meaningless -- kind of a "welcome to the table, and I'm going to keep doing this, so get used to it" sort of thing.) Checking the river in theory shows less strength than donkbetting it would and also gives Villain a chance to bluff again if that's what he's doing, but we are still counting on Villain to bet any heart. Which is not a certainty, but I'm pretty sure I would like the checkraise if he couldn't 3-bet.

But he can.

And, of course, if istewart's 66% figure is precisely correct, then we shouldn't call the 3-bet, but that just seems insane to me in a blind battle. We're showing down, and we have no good way to see that the "correct" number of bets go in, so we do what we can. But I sure do hate seeing that 3-bet.
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  #16  
Old 11-14-2007, 12:47 AM
mattnxtc mattnxtc is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

I actually somewhat like it...I dont think I would ever have the guts to do this without a solid read on villain, but I wouldnt think villain would want to raise the turn with the ace often.
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  #17  
Old 11-14-2007, 04:58 AM
inferno inferno is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

when reading the hand im thinking nooooo, how can he not have the Ah here after a river 3bet but I coudnt fold it anyway. Maiby a donk/call on the river would be better?
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  #18  
Old 11-14-2007, 06:06 AM
Oink Oink is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

This is how I end up playing it and I always call the river 3-bet feeling dirty.

I can maybe remember 2 or 3 times where villain had a worse hand in similar spots.

How sure are you guys on the river call? I am not sure at all


I also wanna add that not raising the river is leaving money behind. Apanage, do people ever raise you in your games? As I remember 5/10 stars this guy can have quite a wide range as it plays fairly aggro - one hand I dont expect him to have is the nuts. People seem to always pop those on the flop.
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  #19  
Old 11-14-2007, 01:04 PM
DeathDonkey DeathDonkey is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

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i dont always bet turn FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH. But I can't fault it I Guess- given the Turn bet yes I think the river is fine.

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Definitely agree with this. Good board to check turn to protect your check/folds.

-DeathDonkey
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