2nd nut straight + LP providing dead money. Do i keep jamming the pot?

[neurotiq]

MP1 has only just sat at the table and I don't have any stats or reads.

HJ is very loose and aggressive preflop but very passive postflop. really a total fish: 79/19/0.71. HJ also just posted small and big blind after sitting out several hands.

I'm UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Of course, I raise. MP1 cold calls. MP3 calls. Button cold calls. Both blinds fold.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

It checks through.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet. MP1 raises. HJ cold calls. Button bails. I 3bet (for value and to charge any lingering flush draws). MP1 caps. HJ calls the two bets coming back at it. I call as well.

River: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

The previous round's cap is starting to make me fear the bigger straight.

I check. MP1 bets. HJ calls. I call.

If this were heads up, I'd feel a lot better about my c/c since I feel like, at best, I'm probably only chopping. Since HJ seems to be providing dead money, though, should I be looking to jam the pot again?

[Aaron W.]

I'm fine with the river check-call. If you check-raise and it's 3-bet, that might be enough to make HJ fold, and you might be stuck paying 3 bets on the river with the worst hand. You're wagering a small gain against a big loss and I'm not convinced it's a good wager.

[Buzz-cp]

The fact that MP1 just sat and then calls two cold preflop does put QJ in his range, but he could also have TT or 99, or A6, or 66. There is part of me that wants to push this a bit more and bet/call this river. I don't think HJ is going away for 2 more bets. I mean OMG he has one pair--not going to fold that after all this. I usually have WTSD on my hud, which helps me determine river action like this--or at least check the popup. I reckon he will usually stick around, and MP1 is overplaying his hand often enough--i.e. I wouldn't put him squarely on QJ. A chop is most likely, yeah.

[Point Blank]

79/19/0.71 ... just because the AF is sub 1 doesn't mean this guy is "very passive postflop"

what this guy is, is a complete retard

PF: standard

F: i can't see following up against 3 idiots on this board (or most others UI) ... so ... OK

T: i'm pretty surprised one of these guys didn't bet the flop [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

i don't know how i feel about the turn 3bet ... you have a one card straight, and MP1 'should' have bet the flop with any other strong hands (so i'm inclined to think he has a Jack too)
if HJ is a big enough donkey to call back another two then I would say go for it (perhaps he picked up a flush draw ... or has a straightdraw himself now)

river:
2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ... complete blank
I like the check, i don't want to bet and have it raised so HJ gets knocked out

now that's it's back to you ... raise of call
i'm not too sure ... only hand that beats you is QJ (dude should have bet that on the flop, no ... and this other guy has garbage)
can we milk HJ for some more bets, when we are splitting or ahead, against the times MP has QJ
not too sure

so when in doubt ... can the easy route ... just call

[Bulletproof Monk]

this is fine

[bellatrix]

Call on the river is fine. If you look at it from an equity point of view, you lose money on the river if everybody has a jack like you and you keep on ramming and jamming because of the rake. You win money if only one of them has a jack. You lose money if somebody has QJ (not unlikely). So all these things even out IMO (especially as you are most likely to chop with one of them at least).
So no raise, call.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm fine with the river check-call. If you check-raise and it's 3-bet, that might be enough to make HJ fold, and you might be stuck paying 3 bets on the river with the worst hand. You're wagering a small gain against a big loss and I'm not convinced it's a good wager.

[/ QUOTE ]

As usual, what Aaron said.

Edited to add: in point of fact, even if you don't lose HJ to a trey the trey should mean that you're at best chopping so you're paying 3 bets to win 1.5.

[Reaction]

I would like to push a bit more with b/c.

For the c/c crowd, what say you if the action is c,b,r?

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to push a bit more with b/c.

For the c/c crowd, what say you if the action is c,b,r?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here we are again, except we don't know what the stakes are. You're assuming that an unknown and a passive player are incapable of reading a board, or are going to push this hard with the ass-end of the straight.

If the action goes check-bet-raise I fold. I don't love my hand, but I'll make a crying call getting 18:1. ~10:1, not a chance.

[Point Blank]

[ QUOTE ]
I would like to push a bit more with b/c.

For the c/c crowd, what say you if the action is c,b,r?

[/ QUOTE ]

why do you want to push your 'edge here' ... what edge, do you think you have??

if you want push - you gain most be check raising and keeping HJ in the hand (not force him out) ... but this still isn't a great plan

c-b-r = easy fold