quick poll, if you would be so kind.

[nuggetz87]

[ QUOTE ]
folding here = enjoy your 1.8ptbb winrate

[/ QUOTE ]

ahahah...so i'm not out of my mind psycho after all.

[NLSoldier]

since he is completely unknown i have no problem with folding it once and then calling or 4betting the next time when he is no longer unknown.

[ValarMorghulis]

If I had no stats then I would fold. But given TAG stats, I don't know any TAGs that don't 3bet light (COvBUT) so I call. (Especially if he has TAG stats on me.)

PostFlop, position doesn't mean anything because 90% of the time I c/r AI or c/fold.

BTW, first I was thinking that the guys that fold are burning money but this situation doesn't come up that often. In a few orbits he'll be known and you can do whatever you normally do to keep the aggro regs in line.

[The Velour Fog]

[ QUOTE ]
Im kinda shocked that many people just fold. I normally call and play a 3bet pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

[XCEO]

The people who say call, how do you play a:

a) low ragged flop
b) Q high flop (Q72r for example)
c) A high flop (AK5r for example)

This isn't really about pf imo, but more on what you do postflop. C/f unimproved? Do you make moves against unknowns?

etc etc etc.

Just saying, I call/fold pf isn't useful
Learn me something about postflop poker pls [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[BobboFitos]

a. need more info, such as what are those low rags
b. probably check call
c. people tend to shut down when check called on ace high, this may be giving alot of info, but a c/c on AKx is super strong. the time to pounce is on the flop, i probably check shove, any ace if they bet is calling, and if they dont have that, they have 2-4 outs and very little intention of firing again (even with an ace they could pot control).

so basically, board 1 depends, board 2 is basically bluff inducing pretend you have 88, and board 3 is check shove in their face.

[XCEO]

Let's assume the low ragged flop is something like 972r

Because you only improve your hand about 1/3 of the time and it isn't very likely that you will win a huge pot against his range, you do need to steal some pots when you miss, am I right? Just playing hit or miss with AQ OOP in a 3-bet pot seems very bad, so when do you steal these pots and furthermore, with what frequency?

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's assume the low ragged flop is something like 972r

Because you only improve your hand about 1/3 of the time and it isn't very likely that you will win a huge pot against his range, you do need to steal some pots when you miss, am I right? Just playing hit or miss with AQ OOP in a 3-bet pot seems very bad, so when do you steal these pots and furthermore, with what frequency?

[/ QUOTE ]

actually, this isnt really correct, mainly because: 1. villain bets the flop which means you gain implied odds (it's not as simple as you win the pot 1 out of 3, thye win 2 out of 3 - furthermore, if that is the cas,e the call pf should breakeven or so, because if they're repopped you pf, you're getting 2:1 on a call, and guess what? You win the pot enough to satiate that) 2. it's ok not to "steal more pots," because the other ways money can be made is make more when ahead, ie. letting them try to steal it

[XCEO]

Okay, you call pf, then:
He makes a standard cb of something like $120 into a $153 pot.

So by calling $51 pf you get a chance of winning $72 + $120 + $9 (blinds) = $201 on the flop (if he doesn't bluff the turn when you call the flop).

You don't win the pot 1 out of 3, but less if you play hit or miss on the flop. Add the chance that you lose more money when you hit a Q and he has an overpair, or an A and he has AK or a set. Your implied odds are pretty low, because most (good) tags are not going to let you win a big pot with AQ.

I'm not really sure what my point is, besides: is it true that you get good odds pf by calling and playing hit or miss on the flop? I don't think so.

[blankoblanco]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't win the pot 1 out of 3, but less if you play hit or miss on the flop. Add the chance that you lose more money when you hit a Q and he has an overpair, or an A and he has AK or a set. Your implied odds are pretty low, because most (good) tags are not going to let you win a big pot with AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is along the lines of my thinking