20/180 - small PP pf checkup BSvBS

[registrar]

Villain has been with us for around ten hands. He doubled up shoving over an UTG 4x raise with KK and, if he's been paying attention he's seen me bet/call a SS push (and lose) with KQo.

Who calls for set value here?
Who folds?
Who raises?

And why?

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t150/t300
(Ante: t25)
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t2285
UTG+1: t9245
MP1: t9955
MP2: t3665
CO: t2370
Button: t3845
Hero: t11186
BB: t6975

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to t800</font>, 4 folds, Hero?

[BrandiFan]

If the KK shove was on this blind level, it's fairly standard. If it was on the previous, then I'd suspect that's an indication he's one of the never fold top pair, never never fold an overpair donks.
Either way I call, because I want all his chips [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
Aside from other reads I'd generally not raise with more than 20x BB in both stacks.
IIRC HoH suggests calling up to 1/10 of your stack for set value.
There are a few decent articles on this on Full Tilt

[Dunkman]

I think the important point here is that unless the BB comes along (a read that he will call frequently makes this call much easier) you are going to have to win some hands UI to make this profitable. I seriously doubt you're going to get him to pay off enough to make calling strictly for set value profitable. If BB is the type that would call with a lot of hands that would make me more inclined to call...if he's the type to squeeze with a fairly wide range that would make me more inclined to fold.

[registrar]

Yeah, good point. You need info on BB. He is a folder. He's not a squeezer.

[FortunaMaximus]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, good point. You need info on BB. He is a folder. He's not a squeezer.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that's the case, I'd be more inclined to call rather than fold or repop UTG+1.

Bothersome spot, since you potentially have a laggy/slightly spewy image from the KQo hand, it's going to be difficult to use positional aggression postflop if it winds up HU to the flop.

However, if you're willing to risk a portion of your stack despite this difficulty, you do at least get to see 4 cards without doing too much damage to your stack if you find yourself needing to fold on turns. So implied set value is slightly higher.

May be a slightly bigger mistake than just folding PF however. Math geeks should see where I'm going with this.