Cheating at AP, updated cliff notes

[pokerpunchout]

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Holy S#%T I wish my results were even 10% this good.

Best MTT player in the world over the last 3 months.

[automaton_22]

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if you want to see how deep it goes check thepokerdb of FANS and kohleppel and OSCAR133... they just parasited from account to account it seems... its so sick

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OSCAR133 - 2 tournaments, 1 9 entrants, 1 296, won both, total winnings 38k

kohleppel - won last 7 tournaments! Entrants 22, 18, 15, 310, 24, 17, 119

multiple other wins, total profit circa $40k

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OSCAR133's results don't seem too conclusive, maybe he just got really lucky and won a STT and MTT, especially if they were low stakes. kohleppel is pretty obvious though. 7 consecutive MTT wins? Someone needs to look at those tournament HHs.

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My opinion: I think embarking on a witch hunt is a very bad idea right now, for the credibility of the proven revelations, and for the coherence of this and other threads. If you do this at all it needs to be done in a separate thread.

[MicroBob]

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LOl for the last time im not an inside source... im from pocket fives and i never post on here cuz its impossible to navigate but i felt i had to come out and say this because I mentioned it to Nat before but never said anything publicly becuz I didnt think it would matter... i thought it was pretty clear they were cheating and didnt need MORE evidence

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switch to flat-mode.
2+2 is significantly less difficult to navigate than P5's imo.

[Josem]

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why is he playing such small buyings? I mean I get you couldnt do this in a bunch of big tournies, but why waste several hours in a .25 cent buyin tourny to win $5? You could just play a couple hands of midstakes and fly just as far under the radar and make a lot more money in way less time

maybe it was just practice or something???

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It is possible that the cheater has no way of depositing.

We already know he cashes out via chip dumping, so it is plausible that he needs to make his way up from $0 - maybe taking part in freerolls, and working his way up for the buyins of higher stakes games.


By depositing, there becomes a real-life trail of documentation as well.

[durron597]

[20:13] durron597: yo
[20:13] nath: yo
[20:13] durron597: not sure if i should post this anywhere since it's not "news"
[20:13] durron597: but
[20:13] durron597: i've been thinking about how this could be done, as a programmer
[20:13] durron597: everyone is assuming account 363 is a superuser
[20:14] nath: yeah, go on
[20:14] durron597: but if i was going to do it
[20:14] durron597: i would probably just send all the cards to everyone, encrypted
[20:14] durron597: (so it wouldn't be plain in a packet sniffer)
[20:14] durron597: then i could make a slightly modified client that just displays all the cards instead of just my own
[20:15] durron597: if thats whats happening it would explain why there seem to be so many cheaters
[20:15] durron597: its possible that account 363 is just like doubledrag or something
[20:16] nath: hmm
[20:16] nath: ok i see what you are saying
[20:16] durron597: and the person who played the mtt as potripper didn't have the hacked client
[20:16] nath: yeah
[20:16] durron597: which makes sense
[20:16] durron597: if it was AJ green playing the account
[20:17] durron597: he probably doesn't want the hacked client to be on his computer
[20:17] durron597: ever
[20:17] nath: yea that makes sense
[20:17] durron597: these are just independant rambling thoughts
[20:17] durron597: just another way to interpret the evidence
[20:18] durron597: this also explains why he didn't seem to know what could come on future streets
[20:18] durron597: like in the AQ vs. JJ hand where he checks the flop
[20:18] durron597: because you couldn't write the software to send the postflop cards in advance
[20:18] durron597: but it seems like a superuser would be able to see that
[20:18] nath: yeah
[20:19] durron597: maybe i'll post this IM convo
[20:19] durron597: in the cliffs notes thread
[20:19] durron597: im not sure what good it would do
[20:20] nath: i'm not sure either but it's a theory and it certainly makes sense if it was a programming job
[20:20] durron597: well
[20:20] durron597: a programmer would have to be in on it for sure
[20:21] durron597: a programmer would have to create the concept of a superuser on the back end
[20:21] durron597: the main reasons i prefer this theory to the superuser one are
[20:21] durron597: 1) the fact that they didn't know what was going to come postflop
[20:22] durron597: 2) they would somehow have to have backend access in real time if there was a superuser
[20:22] durron597: my way only requires a hacked up client
[20:22] durron597: thus,
[20:22] durron597: 3) the fact there seem to be so many people doing it
[20:23] nath: ok but explain to me why a superuser precludes the idea that you can't see hole cards before they come out. it's possible AP's RNG doesn't generate them until the flop is actually dealt, right?
[20:23] durron597: oh, it's not proof
[20:23] nath: right
[20:23] nath: i just think that part of your story is plausible in either case
[20:24] nath: mind you i don't know anything about programming anymore
[20:24] durron597: if i was going to write a system with a backdoor
[20:24] durron597: i wouldn't write the RNG that way [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
[20:24] durron597: like
[20:24] nath: haha
[20:24] durron597: if i was going to make backend access possible, i would write it so that i could see the postflop cards too
[20:25] durron597: im posting this convo

[0evg0]

ALL:

It'll be easy enough to figure out if "kohleppel" is a superuser.

The guy who came in 2nd to him in the $500 is McShove, a regular 2+2er.

Wait until he gets the HH back, and then it'll be easy to determine whether it was cheating or not as it's pretty hard to hide the fact that you know what the other player has when playing HU.

[admiralfluff]

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My opinion: I think embarking on a witch hunt is a very bad idea right now, for the credibility of the proven revelations, and for the coherence of this and other threads. If you do this at all it needs to be done in a separate thread.

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[apefish]

okay edited because its unclear right now.

[aaronbeen]

I've played this tournament and almost all my opponents had low average buyins. It's like a satellite player winning the main event, almost inevitable because of background probability. And the all wins DBs can be explained by the fact that these guys played very small winner take all tournaments and their non first place results aren't recorded.

[0evg0]

ALL:

CHILL OUT WITH THESE THREE ACCOUNTS.
IF YOU LOSE A SATELLITE ON AP, IT DOES NOT SHOW UP ON THE DB.

THUS, ALL THEIR "1ST PLACE" FINISHES IN A ROW MEAN NOTHING AS ALMOST ALL OF THESE "WINS" ARE SMALL STAKES/SMALL FIELD SATELLITES. DON'T GO CHASIN' WATERFALLS, PLEASE STICK TO THE RIVERS AND THE LAKES THAT YOU'RE USED TO.