Cheating at AP, updated cliff notes

[sbj]

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If we get every stolen dollar back, I vote we give them another chance.

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NAY

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[Jehaim]

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I told him that I knew of a way that everyone could come out relatively happy.

There's no doubt that chip-dumping occurred on a massive scale. Chip-dumping is very much against AP rules, and obviously anyone engaging in it in such huge amounts is up to something no-good. It's not like it was a case of me dumping to another known player as a means to trade chips between sites. These were completely unknown accounts dumping to one another, and never being seen again. Surely AP could not be blamed for confiscating the money belonging to these chip-dumpers. Therefore, if the money from these accounts could be returned to those they won it from, on the basis that the accounts were closed for chip dumping, this would be a way that AP could legitimately return the money to the victims without admitting that a superuser account exists. Basically, they'd just be confiscating money from shady accounts (based upon the chip-dumping) and returning it to where it originally came from (instead of just keeping it on AP). Nobody has to admit to a superuser. Nobody has to admit that cheating went down. The affected parties will have their money back. There's no ideal solution to this mess, but I feel that this is probably the closest we can get to it.

Roger told me that my suggestion sounded reasonable, and that he would discuss it with other managers and the site owners.

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Nice job posting this on a public forum.....

[aaronbeen]

Dan Druff I fail to see how this proposed solution gets AP out of trouble. A few weeks ago it might have worked to blackmail them and get the money back but at this point the information is already out there. Another announcement "blah blah chip dumping blah blah we gave ikestoys back his money" won't make people like Levitt any less interested in the story. It won't stop AP employees from leaking as long as somone wants to hear what really happened. Mass media coverage is coming regardless of whether resitution is made. I love the idea of the victims getting repaid but I think AP is going to be forced into a confession at this point.

[suzzer99]

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If there was a superuser, you can bet there isn't one anymore. If certain employees or ex-employees had the idea that they could cheat and get away with it, they now know better. Quite honestly, I doubt this sort of thing will ever happen again at Absolute Poker. They've been put through such hell over this, and I'm sure they will be careful not to let this repeat.


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I mostly agree with what you posted. But I don't share your faith on this point at all. However I'm not stuck any money to the cheaters either, so I have a different perspective.

[Alobar]

wow, reading the comments on digg is very depressing and why I wish this never would have made the front page.

so much for any new fish anytime soon

[byronkincaid]

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Nobody has to admit to a superuser. Nobody has to admit that cheating went down

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Unless they do nobody's ever gonna play there again. I appreciate you've lost a lot of money and want it back but AP need to come clean about everything, apologise and explain how they're gonna keep their games clean from now on. That may, just may mean that they stay in business. If they don't they're dead. Because we know too much now for them to try to keep stuff hiden.

[FaDi]

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If we get every stolen dollar back, I vote we give them another chance.

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NAY

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[Phil153]

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The lightning struck once with AP. It won't strike again. If there was a superuser, you can bet there isn't one anymore. If certain employees or ex-employees had the idea that they could cheat and get away with it, they now know better. Quite honestly, I doubt this sort of thing will ever happen again at Absolute Poker. They've been put through such hell over this, and I'm sure they will be careful not to let this repeat.

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Your long worded theory about how this went down turned out to be bogus. It looks like it's the owners/ex-owners/executives or their friends doing this, and if that's the case, there are no such guarantees.

I agree with returning the money. I disagree with everything else. The best thing they can do in the long run is come clean and take the hit. I will never trust a company that covers this up, and a lot of others feel the same way. Their whole security system - and possibly some of their owners - are rotten to the core and this needs to be publicly exposed, by Absolute, and steps publicly taken to ensure it doesn't happen again. Such as allowing a full audit and overhaul of their systems by a well known security company. Such as removing these corrupt part-owners/managers from any influence in the company.

[fusting1234]

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wow, reading the comments on digg is very depressing and why I wish this never would have made the front page.

so much for any new fish anytime soon

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[teddyFBI]

Thanks DD: one issue, though, which i think u need to keep in mind for ur next phone call >> it's not JUST a return of the stolen funds (6K in my case...at LEAST...that was just to doubledrag but who knows if there were other cheaters out there who had superuser access but were just smarter than those we caught).

If Absolute wants us to come back, we need to understand just how we can be 100% certain that they eliminated the superuser capability...every time we get a bluff called, or a donkey seems to be winning big, it'll be in the back of our minds: "maybe, that superuser thing is still around...but the cheaters are smarter now..."

It's def a tough spot for Absolute, but merely returning the stolen funds won't be enough to get me back to playing there until I get a fuller debriefing of just how they can be so sure that they shut down the superuser access for good. How can they do that without admitting that there WAS a superuser? Meh, I'm not really sure, but those of us who have seen the evidence are already 100% certain of that fact anyway, so merely returning my money I'll just see as a half-measure...albeit one in the right direction.