Very Simple Straightforward 2/4 Question

[Gauge]

Full ring typical live loose game.

A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] UGT + 1. I limp 4 or so callers Button or one of the blinds raise (common occurrence) . No tight players so I have no reason to fear it outright. I know if I call all the others will call as well.

Simple question.. call or fold.

[fartman77]

you answered your own question. call

[AlienBoy]

Please call now, operators are standing by...


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[Gauge]

I know in this situation with say QJ os I should be folding.. thoughts?

[Lethe]

Er... so you limped, some people called, and a guy raised and you're wondering if you should fold? Even if you limped 72o for some reason, do not fold for 1 more bet. Ever.

[Rastadon]

Don't get into this situation with QJo.

Once you have limped, never fold for one bet back to you, unless the guy who had a gun to your head when you limped is now out of bullets.

[BubbleMint]

I dont limp in that early with A9s, especially if it is common for there to be a raise behind me.

[Gauge]

I see youre all talking to me like Im a bit of a halfwit but Im just trying to tighten up the foundation holes in my game.. and Im getting the message here.. The reason I was asking is in SSHE (which Im basing the bulk of my limit play on currently) made mention to limping certain hands and having to reluctantly call just because of the pot size. The purpose of the section of the book was NOT limping in with certain hands in certain positions.

[jesse8888]

Gauge,

People aren't trying to treat you like a half-wit. The point everyone is trying make is the following: if it was even close to correct for you to limp in the first place, it MUST be correct for you to call one more bet when it gets back to you. It sucks because now you're going to play a potentially dominated hand in bad position against the whole world, but you simply can't fold a suited ace getting 10:1 or so.

[AlienBoy]

A9s is a substantially stronger hand than QJo - and I mean substantially by a mile. A9s is a +EV hand, and QJo is a -EV hand, over the long term with average players.


In fact A9s is slightly stronger than KQo, 77, and KJo

However, A9s is slightly weaker than QJs, KTs and JTs.


In loose passive games, such as the games at Commerce in LA, you can call in early position with A9s provided that you have a good read on the later position players and don't expect a raise. The REASON you can play this hand in EP in these games is that you can expect enough callers behind to pay you off later if you hit - though being OOP you'll need to be tricky to extract.

QJo is a different situation - it's a unsuited connector, and not substantially different than JTo or T9o.

Yea, it looks pretty, but it's hard to play OOP. QJo is weaker that 33, it is weaker than Q6s - would you ever think of playing Q6s in EP? Hell, I don't even play Q6s on the button.

Playing QJo OOP is one of the huge leaks in most beginner's games. It's a late position hand.



Now, getting to your other questions, once you are in the pot, folding for ONE more bet is ludicrous - you are now getting twice the pot odds you were getting before. If it is raised and then THREE bet, then you can consider folding some hands.

Remember that playing weaker suited aces (A8s and below) is mainly for nut flush value - but you need to hit at least the nut draw on the flop to continue. Keep in mind that if you hod two suited cards, you'll actually completely your flush only 3% of the time. SO you need to see the flop as cheaply as possible, AND you need to have 4 or more in the pot with you to pay you off if you do hit it.

A9s is a special case, as in loose passive games in UNRAISED POTS, it often holds up when an Ace flops, as any weaker ace is going to pay you off (and in these games, most retards call PF with any ace).


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