I just keep betting and betting until ... I'm all in!

aislephive · #1 02-18-2007, 07:44 PM

Button is 18/10 unimagitive tag, I'm like 23/19 today and pretty aggro as usual. SB is some 44/3 fish. What do you put me on here? If you're button, what hands do you call river with?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($278.15)
MP ($233.90)
Button ($253.39)
SB ($328.85)
Hero ($220.45)

Preflop: Hero is BB with X, Y. SB posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, Button raises to $8, SB (poster) calls $7, Hero calls $6.

Flop: ($24) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $18, Button calls $18, SB folds.

Turn: ($60) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $50, Button calls $50.

River: ($160) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero calls $144.45 (All-In)

Piece of Cake · #2 02-18-2007, 07:52 PM

From a good player, I'd expect some pot control after the flop call. I'd say you must be pretty strong. 9s8s or 88. I bump the flop with any hand I see myself calling the river with, excluding a spade draw of my own. Otherwise I'm not calling this river with much as played. Then again I'm not calling the turn either. This assumes no history of course.

shpanko · #3 02-18-2007, 07:54 PM

I put you on a combo draw or 88/44. You would probably reraise a big A or AA, A8s is possible I guess but I don't know if you call there. Since the TAG didn't reraise the flop I'm guessing he doesn't have AA/88 so you should get paid. Your push on the river kind of seems like you are bluffing though. I think I would fold the turn against you if I had AK/AQ so I like your play.

Final guess, 8-X spades > 88 > 44 > total air?

Although perhaps I should give me credit to total air.

shpanko · #4 02-18-2007, 07:55 PM

Forgot to add. If I'm button I call with AA, 88, two broadway spades and that's probably about it

Dan Bitel · #5 02-18-2007, 08:09 PM

Your range here is pretty much exactly air/boats/flushes. Problem is obviously figuring out with what frequency.

From your POV, I really don't get why you would lead the flop here with air (I guess maybe you can think button needs an ace or better to call, so you take down pot a lot?).

But if you do, and button just calls, turn looks like a GREAT card to 2 barrel on. If he's any good, he must realise you range for leading flop is 2pair+ and combo draws, and draws just got there. After button just calls turn, I presume you are putting him on a big ace with a high spade most the time. you gotta remember that a lot of players might flat call a set on the flop (and obv won't raise turn when flush hits) and a lot of players won't raise a flush on the turn.

So basically, you have to be putting him on a big ace, boat or flush. So for you to fire here with air would be pretty retarded, as so little of his range is folding. As a result, I guess vs your range, I would need J-high flush or better to call? That being said, I'm sure A bad TAG might look you up with just aces up here as he thinks he's under-repped his hand

writser · #6 02-18-2007, 08:10 PM

I'd say you don't have draw. Because, if you have one, you'd check the flop, get the button to bet and try to get the fish in the pot. By leading out you might get the pot headsup with the fish.

I think a made hand, and you are afraid of possible draws so you bet out on the flop. On the river you don't slow down, so I think you can beat two pair. You would probably muck A8 and A4 preflop against a tight TAG OOP. That leaves 88 and 44.

As a sidenote, I also like this line as a total bluff vs. a scared TAG. However, a fish is in the pot and this would be a very bad spot to bluff.

So my guess: 44.

DWarrior · #7 02-18-2007, 08:17 PM

If you had a set, I'd be interested to know why you bet pot on the turn. I would expect a bet closer to 3/4th.

I'm going to guess brag post with air, or KQ/KJ spades.

Piece of Cake · #8 02-18-2007, 08:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I'm going to guess brag post with air...

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting comment. Is it cheating on our part by narrowing your possible range by considering what holdings you could have here and still make a post like this?

Paul Thomson · #9 02-19-2007, 10:53 AM

I think the biggest problem with this hand is that a large range of your hand has 44 or 88 because of preflop. Since you've been playing aggressively, you are almost surely squeezing with your big Aces. And even a large % of your suited connectors. So I'm putting you on small pocket pair preflop, likely 44 more than 88 which I think you'd squeeze sometimes as well. But this is my read because I understand your preflop thinking.

ikestoys · #10 02-19-2007, 11:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]

wtf are you talking about man? A TAG donking into a TAG and a fish in a 3way pot is a big hand (read combo draw or set) just about [censored] always

[/ QUOTE ]

it doesn't matter what your line represents to you here, but what your line reps to the villain. Villain was a described as an unimaginative TAG, which I take to mean he plays his hand only, not yours. Therefore, trying to get AK to fold is very risky, and he is never folding a flush.

Basically I'm looking for a reason why you would think that this villain would fold, from his perspective.