Take your game to the next level (NLTRN)

[Conspiracy]

This might be a weird thread but it's something I really have been thinking about the last couple of weeks.

I have been playing HU SnGs for a few months now and feel that I have pretty good idea of the game. Im playing the $100s at a smaller network and have a ROI at the lower 6% after about 2000 games while two tabling. Im really happy with my results but since the games are really really soft where I'm playing I feel that there are a lot more money to make.

The thing is that I feel stuck at where I am right now. I keep playing my 30-40 games a day with good result but always knowing they could be better.

When I started playing I think I improved a lot just by thinking of optimal strategies in different situations but now that doesn't work anymore for me.

I post a lot on different forums, discuss heads-up poker with "pokerfriends" and so on...

I think most winning players have come to this point when they try to take there game to the next level but having a hard time doing it.

So, I know there are a lot of good players here and I would like to know what you think is the best way for me to go.

Thanx.

[Nichomacheo]

I'm in a very similar spot. Have you tried cash games? I find that its difficult for me to spend the time it takes to learn a new type of game when there is immediate (and good) money to be made where I'm at. Unfortunately, this will ultimately limit what you achieve as far as poker goes. I think you're smart for trying to explore a little. If you just mean moving up in stakes, that just requires study and playing more of them.

What site?

[Indiana]

read this now

http://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/article/16963

[Nichomacheo]

My SharkScope looks like Larry, but its starting to look like Johnny. Is this a good or a bad thing?

[Indiana]

well i mean i personally feel that no man is an island and that you have to seek out better players to help u improve. whether or not its coaching, or a staking agreement, or just living with some guys that play well...i think that's the way to get above the 115s. You will also need to dig down deep inside and push yourself hard to make money above the 115s....this is not supposed to be easy fellas.

Indy

[ChicagoRy]

DN wrote a semi-subjective article on two very cut and dry types of players. The most consistent winners are neither of which he mentions, it really sounds like a defense for his gigantic swings and -EV gambles.

Anyways, most people are going to top out at a certain level (110s for a lot of people, maybe 220s after enough games played) unless they really work a lot harder to gain a smaller edge as they move up. It's going to be different with different people.

If you think you've reached your peak without devoting more to the game, you have a decision to make. Right now, if you keep doing what you're doing there should be no reason why you can't move up to the 220s in due time, safely with a good sized bankroll. 6% at 110s can easily turn into 8-10% because it's not like you completely stop learning new things and improving your game. Then you'll have a 5-6% ROI at the 220s.

Basically what I'm trying to say is every player that isn't already devoting their fullest towards becoming the best player they can be will ultimately reach a point where their improvement rate hits such a low number that they will not notice very many changes over long periods. If you want to keep improving and you think you've reached this point you're going to have to do something different to improve your game. There are obviously many ways to do it, as Indy mentioned a few, but don't feel you have to invest a lot more money or time into learning just to improve. There are other ways to do it, think things out. It helps to have a network of poker players you routinely talk to, as ideas are always flowing and options are always open.

[Indiana]

totally agree chicago...but u guys gotsta understand that beating the 220s/550s CONSISTENTLY over hundreds/thousands of games is not going to be easy. You will have to really push yourself hard because players at that level know so much about poker (except for the fishies which are fewer than at the 115s). Its going to be a long hard road as you go above the 115s into the 220s and even higher than that.......especially for a guy like me because poker is only 20% of my day with a full time career....

But it is possible. ANd that is for you to figure out how. If we all knew then we'd be doing it but Im at the 115s right there with you guys at the moment. I have ideas how to make that next jump and i've even taken some shots but for now i'm making my bacon at the 115s. By January 1, 2008 my goal is to pwn the 220s regularly.

We'll see. Indy

[Insane_Steve]

Ya, I'm sort of in the same boat as you guys, I remember playing Ry in a $33 match just a couple months ago, now Ry's beating the $110s and I'm just now trying to move up to the $50 games. My big hurdle is overcoming swings -- I can't seem to get over even -$150 days (last time I lost 3 $50s in a row I wound up moving up to $600 PLO to chase losses. Which I did, but next time I might busto).

[derosnec]

i would recommend cash games for a while and post/read as much as you can in ssnl/msnl

a heads up sng is really three things (Stars): 1) somewhat deep stack cash game in first/2nd level, 2) medium stack poker in 2nd/maybe 3rd level, 3) shortstack poker in 3rd/4th+ levels

it's really several different games in one

the first 2 levels is where cash game experience really gives one a strong edge. most of my opponents (including leaderboard guys) are terrible 1st/2nd level players and terrible 4th level+ players. they are only decent at 3rd level since that is where they get to do their silly minraise/limp trapping FPS that they love so much, and it's effective at that level.

edit: for 55s and lower, i haven't played 100s+ in a long time, but when i did the players were bad too, including regs

[Conspiracy]

Great answers guys.

I loved the article Indy and I believe I find a lot of myself in Larry. That's basically why I started this thread, i hate beind stuck at where I am right now and as I said I really want to take my game to the next level.

I think the most important thing for me (and for everyone obviously) is to be open for criticism and don't be afraid to show my leaks when posting hands etc.

Maybe taking shots at bigger games (the $200s) could be one way to go. I will play better players there and therfore i HAVE to improve my game if I want to make any money.

Nicho, I play at Bossmedia.