Ratholing NL08.

[predator06]

was in september bro

[dud_ber]

So if u got to know what your doing to make money ratholing, wouldn't you have just as much if not more EV with a full stack

I mean it seems like the good players at nlo8 and plo8 are making their money on latter streets

[Truthiness24]

Not necessarily.

The short stacking-and-ratholing strategy involves different (some would say less) skills. Basically, you have a predetermined set of hands scripted that you know are generally going to be 55% or better HU and you push every time you see one. You don't mind just picking up the blinds because you know that eventually people are going to get sick of folding and call you with a hand that they shouldn't. Since you are playing with stacks and not chips, the edge is meaningful.

Under some circumstances, you might expand your range. HU you'll use a really wide range. The point is that you don't mind the coin flips and you're really making your money from (1) people who fold to your push and (2) ratholing when you're a stack instead of a stack behind.

Now, this isn't to say that a ratholer couldn't also be good at what we might call a "conventional" game, where you seek to make your money on the later streets. But I think, at least in predator's case, he has discovered a mode of play that works for him better than any other and he is going to ride it until it bucks him. (It seems to be bucking him right now.)

[Truthiness24]

Another reason why ratholing works better right now online than standard expert big-stack play is that so many players at the higher levels online are really good right now. To play just like every other good player is to play 50/50 at best and potentially give up a skill edge if you aren't as good as you think.

But it's easy to be a ratholer. It negates the big stack's skill advantage, if he has one, and it puts him off his game. As a matter of prinicple, I don't really like it a whole lot, but ratholing does work.

[davebreal]

[ QUOTE ]
you know are generally going to be 55% or better HU

[/ QUOTE ]

you are far far off. more like 35%-70% in the $5/$10 NLO8 games that are running. the more important aspect is fold equity, but that is all i have to say on the subject...

too many lurkers here, and i don't care to tap the aquarium.

[Truthiness24]

I was being generous. I'm surprised you said as much as you did ...

[Mendacious]

As I said, personally I will buy somewhat short, (but not as short as 1/5 the buy-in) and I don't think that a 33% buy-in min for instance is too low, but to deal with this, I think you would have to get the sites to raise the min-buy-in a bit, AND more importantly, extend the time period for prohibiting a player from buying short. 1/2 hour is too short to really cut in to profits. Make it 2 hours, and the players who play a lot of hands would think twice.
I have no problem with people making a profit and taking it down, BUT this should not be employed as a strategy to continually sit-out and rebuy and never put yourself at risk. IMHO it is unethical. I think PRED, who can play with a full stack, doing this is a little bogus. Certainly legal though.

[davebreal]

[ QUOTE ]
this should not be employed as a strategy to continually sit-out and rebuy and never put yourself at risk. IMHO it is unethical.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is precisely "the system" that Idiot and Predator use, for anyone who cares to learn that trade. they buy-in for the absolute minimum at $5/$10NLO8, play HU and push any Ace or any pocket pair Jacks or higher generally. if limped to, they will also push with must wheel card hands. thus a good counter strategy is to limp/trap with good 4 card hands.

if they bust, they rebuy for the min again at the same table. if they double-up, they open a new 5/10 table for the min buy-in, close the original table, and disallow their opponent to try to win their bigger stack.

keep in mind, this is the "ultra-secret" $5/$10 NLO8 HU strategy. the shortstackers who play the full ring games aren't necessarily all ratholers though, i'd say that less 75% of them are. the majority of the fullring shortstackers are just under rolled.

[ThE_rEaL_gUnIt]

F guns

[StrikeR300]

For all the NLO8 Haters..

How would a deep stacked 6-max NLO8 table, with a buyin from 100-300bbs run? Would it still be a stupid game?