Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

[MuresanForMVP]

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The guy probably saved a few lives by doing this. If the criminals tried to rob the house when someone was home unexpectedly, what are the chances of them shooting the home owner? What are the chances these guys commit another crime when they get away with this? What are the chances they kill someone next time? What about all the other criminals or would-be criminals that hear about this and think again?

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You have to consider the merits of the case, and saying this is a HUGE leap of assumption.


Lol at "they have a bag of loot!" Also LOL at him saying "I had no choice man! I had no choice!" He had enough time to make about 200 choices, as he was CALMLY speaking to the 911 operator. The opportunity for him to choose was presented an ample number of times, he chose to go outside with gun drawn after 6 and a half minutes of a phone call. I understand trying to protect your neighbor but jesus this is ridiculous. This guy's gonna get pwned in court.



And wtf were the police? 8 minutes+? This shows yet again that the responsibility of individual protection falls on the citizen, and not the police.

[MuresanForMVP]

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To be honest I have no problem with what the guy did. I think that shooting people robbing houses isnt a real bad thing for society to have. Things like calling the guy a hero are what is completely baffling to me.

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Well not to be a nit but they were burglarizing an empty house, burglary<robbery. That's an important distinction. Protecting your own house with deadly force is completely fine with me, but going around taking the law into your own hands over a "bag of loot" is going way too far. The two thieves were probably scum bags, but people don't have the right to just go around greasing those they determine to be scum bags.

[Ditch Digger]

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To be honest I have no problem with what the guy did. I think that shooting people robbing houses isnt a real bad thing for society to have. Things like calling the guy a hero are what is completely baffling to me.

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Well not to be a nit but they were burglarizing an empty house, burglary<robbery. That's an important distinction. Protecting your own house with deadly force is completely fine with me, but going around taking the law into your own hands over a "bag of loot" is going way too far. The two thieves were probably scum bags, but people don't have the right to just go around greasing those they determine to be scum bags.

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I haven't seen any mention of the guys being unarmed. Were they?

[RoundTower]

I don't think anyone can argue with:
- the guy went outside because the burglars were "getting away" with "a bag of loot", not because they were threatening him or his neighbour or anyone's property.
- the guy went outside with the intention of killing them.

in civilized countries this would be premeditated murder, not manslaughter or self-defense. Civilization is relatively new to Texas and to the US in general: it is a very young state and it isn't long since it was an untamed frontier. It's standard that countries like that have less respect for the rule of law. Vigilante justice is commonplace in such countries: research for example the Texas Rangers, Hamas or Mapogo a Mathamaga.

Texas has to decide whether it wants to take another step towards civilization, but I suspect Texans are perfectly happy with the way it is.

[sharkscopeaholic]

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Newspapers (some at least, I've only read a couple) are reporting it as "Move and your dead" .... I dunno.

I'm curious to hear how more people feel. I just can't get behind the absolute assertion that the guy was wrong. And I really don't think this is a strong case for gun control, or at least, not as strong as some people seem to think.

The guy realy sounds to me like he felt he didn't have a choice - he felt duty-bound to try and stop the thieves. He may well be an idiot, and he may really have been wrong. But I listen to the tape and it's just not so simple for me.

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Do you really think the neighbor's VCR was worth the lives of two men? This guy did. He thought about it, the 911 operator urged him repeatedly to cool down, and then he decided that yes, he should kill (or run a very high risk of killing) two people to save his neighbor's stuff. That's evil and depraved. Valuing consumer electronics over people's lives is exactly the sort of thing we need to be locking people up for.

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"Do you really think the neighbor's VCR was worth the lives of two pieces of trash?"

Did the two robbers think their lives were worth a VCR? They made the choice to steal and they paid the price. Do you think anyone will steal from that neighborhood again in the next 5 years?

edit: They knew they could get shot in texas (or anywhere else) by breaking in to someones house and they did it anyway. Also he told them not to run and they ran, i wish the guy was my neighbor so i didnt have to lock my doors when i leave.

[JMa]

911 guy: "Don't go outside", "stay in your house" etc

a little while later, after the shootings:
Shooter: "I had no choice..."
yeah, the house was burning you had to go outside

[El Diablo]

Fly,

"This thread is an embarrassment to EDF, fwiw."

How so?

[ImsaKidd]

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Valuing consumer electronics over people's lives is exactly the sort of thing we need to be locking people up for.

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I disagree here.

I hate to be racist or value one person over another, but these 2 burglars arent exactly model citizens. They are a leech on society, and they are certainly going to rob someone else. Who knows if they are armed, and if they will harm someone else while robbing them?

I really can't blame someone for killing 2 thieves.

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i used to think you seemed like an ok guy. this post is horrific.

your point is not that they posed an imminent threat and the guy had to defend himself. your point is that they were bad people so who cares if someone shoots them. just wow.

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I probably phrased my point poorly, blah.

I was trying to get at that these guys could very likely harm other people when robbing another house. Maybe they think the house is empty, go inside, and are startled by a resident, and they end up shooting them.

EDIT: WTF I didnt say "they are bad people, who cares if someone shoots them".

[MuresanForMVP]

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To be honest I have no problem with what the guy did. I think that shooting people robbing houses isnt a real bad thing for society to have. Things like calling the guy a hero are what is completely baffling to me.

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Well not to be a nit but they were burglarizing an empty house, burglary<robbery. That's an important distinction. Protecting your own house with deadly force is completely fine with me, but going around taking the law into your own hands over a "bag of loot" is going way too far. The two thieves were probably scum bags, but people don't have the right to just go around greasing those they determine to be scum bags.

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I haven't seen any mention of the guys being unarmed. Were they?

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Not too sure, even if they were the man had the ultimate decision whether or not to stay inside. He created the threat. If they were clearly armed an officer would be justified in opening fire thanks to the ruling in Tennessee Vs. Garner (the police have the right to fire at a fleeing violent felon). The same does not apply to civilians

[MuresanForMVP]

Tennessee vs. Garner for anyone who's interested