Raising PPs preflop

[echinos]

I've seen a lot of advice saying that most pocket pairs (in both SSNL and SSLH) should be raised preflop. I generally raise with TT+, but after that, I limp for set value. Below TT, very often I end up folding on the flop or turn after an overcard or two shows up, so I don't see the point of raising, unless I'm doing it as an isolation play or something.

So, should I be open-raising with 88 from MP every time?

[lucky_mf]

In a game that is fairly passive pre-flop your strategy of limping is fine. It will, however, become problematic when there is a considerable degree of light position raising happening in the game.

Players position raising behind you are doing so with light holdings meaning that you don't have implied odds to draw at a set much of the time. Additionally, the are likely going to continuation bet a flop with overcards to your pair leaving you trying to play an underpair out of position or check folding. Neither of these options is all that attractive.

Lucky

[llleisure]

Also, if you always limp-call with 22-77 and then wind up jamming a pot you limp-called pre-flop your set tendencies become sort of transparent and it'll be harder to get your sets paid off because any thinking opponent is going to notice you limp-called and suddenly got interested on the flop.

[MMagicM]

I play 6 max and raise every pair from the CO or button. Even with overcards to your pair, it is more likely the flop missed your opponent than not and your C-Bet would be betting the best hand rather than a bluff. You could even bring a bigger pair than yours to fold, when you have 44 and your opponent 88 and the flop come KT3 or so. And, if you hit your set, there will already be more chips in the pot, making your likely payday even bigger. I still need to find out if this approach is +EV or not, but so far it works for me...

[RyverRat]

As you open your game in 6max you should be raising all PP preflop from any position imo.

[Mase31683]

With pp's I'll raise any pot that hasn't been raised up yet, regardless of number of limpers. I want to get paid if I hit my set and people are more willing to stick around in a raised pot than one they just limped into. Add to that the ability to c-bet the flop and take down pots with an ace or king on the board and it works nicely.

[RyverRat]

[ QUOTE ]
With pp's I'll raise any pot that hasn't been raised up yet, regardless of number of limpers. I want to get paid if I hit my set and people are more willing to stick around in a raised pot than one they just limped into. Add to that the ability to c-bet the flop and take down pots with an ace or king on the board and it works nicely.

[/ QUOTE ]

totally agree ^

[choccypie]

I play 6max and will open raise any pp from any position. If I hit my set great, if not most of the time I can take down the pot with a cbet.

[RapidEvolution]

In FR (I'm not sure which you play) I think it's very table and style dependent. I've been in both camps (both raising all PPs and limping some of them), so I'll lay out what I've learned. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]


Limping:

Pros:

1) Smaller investment: You're only paying a BB to enter the pot, if it stays limped. If you hit your set and take 1/3 of their stack, you've gotten the same return on the investment you would've gotten had you raised to 3BB and then stacked them postflop.

2) Being 3bet doesn't kill you: If someone raises after you've come into the pot, you may still have the implied odds needed to call correctly, whereas if you'd raised and been reraised, you'd be making a mistake in calling (unless the stacks were very big).

3)Pot control: (This is more of an issue when you're in EP)
It's not a good habit to build a big pot when you know you're going to be out of position. Limping keeps the pot small and encourages other limpers (which is what you want when you're playing a small pair to set-mine, as opposed to when you're playing a big pair/overpair hand like AA/KK/AK.

4) Getting away: If you've made a small investment, you can get away from your hand easier when you miss. (This is assuming you're only playing to set mine...PPs can be good for sniping off cbets on low boards)

Cons:

1) It can be tough to convince people to pay you off in a limped pot.

2) If small PPs are the only hands you're limping, you can become pretty easy to read.


Raising:

1) Disguise: When you're raising hands like 33 and 44, more observant players (and players with a HUD) will start giving you more action as you'll be raising much more often than someone who only raises JJ+/AK. This means more payoff when you make a raise with AA/KK and someone who's tired of your low PP raises decides to take a stand against you with 88.

Also, people playing against you will have less of an idea what you have. When you spike a set of 3's on a board of A-T-3, someone with AK or AT is going to give you all their money.

2) Taking down smaller pots: If you're at a limit where cbetting takes the pot down most of the time, you're adding more hands that you can cbet with. Also, villains will make more mistakes incorrectly folding PPs higher than yours.

3) Taking stacks: Since the pot is raised, people will pay more money with their top pair/2pair hands than they would have if it were a limped pot (simply by virtue of the pot size on the flop).

Cons:

1) Being OOP in a big pot: While raising builds a pot that you hope to take down with a cbet, it can be problematic when that cbet gets called if you're out of position. If you're against a table of calling stations, you may want to abandon raising small PPs altogether from EP.

2) (This goes mostly for the low pairs) Getting trapped: If you're raising from EP with a hand like 33 or 44, be aware that other players may call hoping to bust your high pair with their better PP. For example, you raise from UTG+1 with 22 and get called by a good, tight player in the CO. You flop bottom set on a 2s-4d-8h flop and cbet the flop. Villain calls. The turn is the Tc. You pot the turn and villain raises you. There's a very good chance he's got 44 or 88 and is looking to bust a high pair.

3) Getting 3bet sucks!! Let's say you raise to 4BB with 77 from UTG+1 and a player in the CO raises to 14BB. If you think he'd only do this with Jacks or better, you have to fold if the stacks are 100BB. If you call, you can't make enough money (when you hit and he doesn't) to make up for all the times you miss (or the times when you both hit and he gets your stack). Getting 3bet pushes you out of the pot and forces you to give up a good hand.


I tend to lean towards limping PPs, but it's really dependent on the table, the players, and how you play. Hope some of this helped!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Lansingg]

I play 6max and will open raise any pp from any position. If I hit my set great, if not most of the time I can take down the pot with a cbet.