Agressive line taken (stud) - Page 2

chucky · #11 10-27-2007, 10:44 PM

Rusty,

Were you scarred by some evil stud villian? Worrying about opponent having rolled up aces is paranoia here.

electrical · #12 10-27-2007, 11:00 PM

I may be the only one, but I think third is a fine spot to jam once in a while. The only card out that weakens your draw it a lone Seven, and there's a good chance your opponents are holding each others' outs.

Nothing in poker is something you ought to always do, but I don't mind occasionally jamming with a live compound draw like this.

Fourth came down great, since your hand was not played like a three-flush, anybody hitting two pair in this big pot will probably pay off if you flush out on Fifth. This is precisely why you occasionally want to jam Third with a hand like this.

It's analogous to the Holdem play of raising in early position with a gapper or little pair. It increases your bluff equity with scare cards and makes it possible to get paid off when you make a big concealed hand.

xxeximusxx · #13 10-27-2007, 11:39 PM

I like the way you played it, come on rusty, 3 aces? lol

RustyBrooks · #14 10-27-2007, 11:59 PM

I am not at all saying your opponent HAS to have 3 aces.

But, you are either a small favorite or a big dog on 4th.

And you like 3rd st? Really? I don't play a lot of stud but to me that goes beyond aggro. A single bet on 4th is standard semi-bluff territory, although at this point the pot is so huge that I wouldn't attempt a semi bluff so often (it's huge because you jammed 3rd with a weak drawing hand).

I don't think completing 3rd is bad and I don't think betting 4th is bad but I do think OP put in 1 raise too many on 3rd and 4th. (And putting in one raise too many means he put in at least 2 bets too many on both streets)

RustyBrooks · #15 10-28-2007, 12:01 AM

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It's analogous to the Holdem play of raising in early position with a gapper or little pair. It increases your bluff equity with scare cards and makes it possible to get paid off when you make a big concealed hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe me, that's one of my favorite plays in holdem. I don't bet/3bet in those spots though. And if I start with 46s in holdem, not only do I not bet/3bet preflop, I don't bet/3bet the flop when I make a flush draw.

xxeximusxx · #16 10-28-2007, 12:15 AM

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I am not at all saying your opponent HAS to have 3 aces.

But, you are either a small favorite or a big dog on 4th.

And you like 3rd st? Really? I don't play a lot of stud but to me that goes beyond aggro. A single bet on 4th is standard semi-bluff territory, although at this point the pot is so huge that I wouldn't attempt a semi bluff so often (it's huge because you jammed 3rd with a weak drawing hand).

I don't think completing 3rd is bad and I don't think betting 4th is bad but I do think OP put in 1 raise too many on 3rd and 4th. (And putting in one raise too many means he put in at least 2 bets too many on both streets)

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actually, isn't more like your usually a favorite, if he does have 2 pair which is unlikely your a very slight dog, and if he somehow has 3 aces your a dog..

id say your a favorite here more than you a dog on 4th

RustyBrooks · #17 10-28-2007, 12:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am not at all saying your opponent HAS to have 3 aces.

But, you are either a small favorite or a big dog on 4th.

And you like 3rd st? Really? I don't play a lot of stud but to me that goes beyond aggro. A single bet on 4th is standard semi-bluff territory, although at this point the pot is so huge that I wouldn't attempt a semi bluff so often (it's huge because you jammed 3rd with a weak drawing hand).

I don't think completing 3rd is bad and I don't think betting 4th is bad but I do think OP put in 1 raise too many on 3rd and 4th. (And putting in one raise too many means he put in at least 2 bets too many on both streets)

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actually, isn't more like your usually a favorite, if he does have 2 pair which is unlikely your a very slight dog, and if he somehow has 3 aces your a dog..

id say your a favorite here more than you a dog on 4th

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Well, I guess I'll have to take your word for it. At this point I've played less than about 2k hands of stud. The general consensus seems to be that this is at least occaisonally OK.

electrical · #18 10-28-2007, 12:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

It's analogous to the Holdem play of raising in early position with a gapper or little pair. It increases your bluff equity with scare cards and makes it possible to get paid off when you make a big concealed hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe me, that's one of my favorite plays in holdem. I don't bet/3bet in those spots though. And if I start with 46s in holdem, not only do I not bet/3bet preflop, I don't bet/3bet the flop when I make a flush draw.

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If you could see one each of your opponents' cards and you knew you were extra-live and they weren't, would that change your mind?

I'm asking because you can see some of their cards in this game, so it's different. But analogous.

RustyBrooks · #19 10-28-2007, 12:33 AM

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If you could see one each of your opponents' cards and you knew you were extra-live and they weren't, would that change your mind?

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Yes. If I could see one of their cards, and it was an A, and they raised my early position raise, I am NOT THREE BETTING, especially because if I can see one of theirs, they can see one of mine.

3rd seems the worst to me. 4th obviously came down nice for you and you're ahead some times. I still don't like a 3bet there but I don't think the initial bet is bad.

Micturition Man · #20 10-28-2007, 01:36 AM

The completing on 3rd has to be bad imo. You definitely want multiway action... if you wind up getting heads up with split jacks you become a moderate dog with what could have been a huge multiway favorite.

The jamming is alright. It probably has some downsides but the plus side is that it lets you represent roll-ups or take free cards or whatever. (And representing roll-ups can have huge value against solid opponents.)

If you want to get crazy limp-reraise this hand. Completing after a limper is really the worst way besides folding to play it.

Also the 4th street heads-up jamming is just a matter of represenation. I would think you are a small favorite given the exposed cards but if jamming will cause the other guy to put you on a flush draw it's not worth it. If it won't go ahead I guess.