Early UFC 74/75 Lines

[List]

They're very unlikely to give Liddell an instant title shot after beating Jardine. There are two main reasons for this. Rampage might beat Henderson, in which case he will still be champ when Liddell beats Jardine. They aren't going to give him an easy shot against someone he's 0-2 against, even if he's Chuck Liddell. The other reason is that White has stated he wants to give Shogun a title shot if he wins his first fight. Since his first fight is supposed to be in September, that means he gets the next title shot after Rampage/Henderson. Which means they can't give Liddell a shot after Jardine, unless they want him to sit on his ass for 6 months, which is a big waste of a draw.

Obviously Jardine wouldn't get it if he won, with his recent loss to Alexander. The winner of the Tito/Rashad Rematch, and the possible coming of Wanderlei Silva puts other people high up in the contender picture. There are plenty of people he can fight for a title shot if he manages to beat Liddell.

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shogun? wandy? what exactly have they done in the ufc to justify the title-shot if chuck doesn't "deserve" it? combined they have ZERO fights in ufc but apparently they deserve it more than the 6 time lhw titleholder who also have 2 wins over the current hw champ? outrageously humourous..

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You're ignoring the fact that UFC brass respects accomplishments in Pride as much as the UFC, as should you. They fast tracked CroCop to a title shot, even though he blew it, and Nog looks like he's speeding along too. The only reason CroCop didn't get an instant shot is his lack of recognition to UFC fans. They seem prepared to give Fedor an instant shot, and they gave Henderson an instant shot. Number of fights in the UFC only matters from a marketing standpoint, from a skill/accomplishment standpoint, Pride fights are just as good, if not better.

The Shogun situation is similar to the CroCop situation. He doesn't hold the primary belt, nor has he ever held it, and he doesn't have recognition. It's hard to market someone as the #1 LHW in the world when UFC fans haven't heard of him.

Even if they give Liddell a shot after beating Jardine, it's no sillier than giving Hughes a shot after beating Lytle.

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who else is left then? lambert can't beat rashad. rashad can't beat tito and don't deserve a shot until he does.. tito can't beat stamina. forest and gouveia can't beat jardine.. bisping and machida you can barely make a case for, but i don't see why they deserve it anymore than chuck after winning 2 straight against semi-mediocre competition (in bisping's case) and unimpressively (machida's case). so you tell me hoss: WHO "DESERVES" a title-shot if chuck doesn't if he wins against jardine?

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You still seem to be missing a critical point. By the time Liddell finishes off Jardine, Machida will have another fight under his belt. If he wins he'll have beaten the #1 ranked LHW in the world. Along with a 3-0 UFC record, and wins over some big names. Also, his wins were impressive. They just weren't exciting. It's often harder to dominate someone for 3 rounds like he does than it is to knock someone out in a couple of minues.

[trixtrix]

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They're very unlikely to give Liddell an instant title shot after beating Jardine.

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but that doesn't mean he does not "deserve" it, which is my only contention w/ the other posting..

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Even if they give Liddell a shot after beating Jardine, it's no sillier than giving Hughes a shot after beating Lytle.

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exactly, so what does anyone have to be upset about?

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You still seem to be missing a critical point.

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i'm not, my only point is that just b/c others are likely to get a title-shot before chuck due to circumstance does NOT mean they "deserve" it.

i understand the lhw situation completely. i also love machida, however to that at the current pt in time he deserves a title-shot more so than chuck is ridiculous. fwiw i think he makes a better main event opp for chuck than jardine, infintely more than houston.. but that was beyond the original pt i was making..

[MikeyPatriot]

Re: Nog

He's supposed to fight Cro Cop if Cro Cop gets by Kongo.

[Mr biggums]

Who exactly has Metzger and Belfort beat that make them world class strikers? Getting beat by top competition over and over again doesn't make you a good fighter. Chuck gets a fight against a world class striker in Rampage and gets dominated twice.

2 fighters that in their previous fight were completely dominated shouldn't be a main event. Stop being rediculous. Chuck got unlucky? Put Chuck against a top 5 and he will be knocked out over and over.

How does Jardine deserve it more than Houston? He got KTFO in a minute by Houston.

Who deserves a title shot if chuck beats Jardine? Definitely not Chuck. Jardine isn't even top 20 in the division. How about Shogun? Or is he not good enough for you.

Who cares if he has held the belt in the UFC for a while or not. Simple fact is if he and Coutoure were in Pride they wouldn't have been close to holding a title ever. Why aree you hating on Prid so much? A year ago they had 100x more talent than the UFC. The only division that the UFC was better in was WW.

Why bring up Matt Hughes? My point was that Dana likes to give quick title shots to people who don't deserve them...thanks?
Maybe you'd like to post your record if you don't think mine is good enough....cmon I'm waiting...

[trixtrix]

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*blah blah blah* pride rulez!!!11 >> ufc

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100X more talent than ufc? wow big talker.. slow down there. are you referring to the pride that has their lw champ dominated by nick diaz and 2nd top hw contender rhk into oblivion by gonzaga? or are you referring to the pride in which their 3rd hw was almost ko'd by herring of all people and their 4th gotten outpointed by arlovski?

how exactly does that make pride "100x better" again?

who has vitor belfort beat that was any good? how about your hero wandy silva for one in 22secs of blitzkrieg? or maybe silva isn't any good.. after all he was also dominated by tito of all people.. but he's the ex-pride champ; and pride >> ufc!1.. LOGIC OVERLOAD..

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Maybe you'd like to post your record if you don't think mine is good enough....cmon I'm waiting...

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wait.. i'm confused, when did you post your record again? we are talking about betting record correct?

[Mr biggums]

1 fight does not make a career. Lets take a look at who belfort has lost against... Hendo, Overeem, Tito, Randy, Sakuraba. but omg he beat Wandy 9 years ago.

Anyone can see that Gomi didn't take the fight seriously...it wasn't a title fight. Add to the fact that Diaz is a huge mismatch for LWs because of his size and you get the domination. It would be tough for Diaz to make 155. Diaz is a WW not a LW. Good try though.

So Crop Cop loses his first fight in a cage and that's all you base it off of. Name the UFC HW's that are better than Cro Cop please (not the ones that come from pride). Crop Cop fights Gonzaga 10 times he wins 8 of them.

Who do you think the 4th HW is? Werdum? Wow shows how much you know. Try Barnett dude.

Nice try with the Big Nog but your limited knowledge comes into play once again. Herring is a Pride fighter that just moved to UFC. Very nice attempt though. Big Nog still won too.

[trixtrix]

do you know what a credible meaningful debate is? it's when both sides backup their arguments w/ credible evidence.

let me sum up our current interactions so far:

do
{
me: present argument, *presents evidence to backup argument*
you: "your evidence suck b/c i said so! so shut up b/c i'm SO GREAT!" *presents NO evidence to backup ANYTHING*
}
while (thread IS Alive)

i'm still waiting for any piece of evidence so far that pride is 100X >> ufc, or how chuck is so chinny-chin-chin.. all you been doing so far is covering your ears and stomping your feet in the face of anything i present.. just b/c YOU don't think liddell is within top 5 or jardine is within top 20 lhw DOES NOT make it so. the fact that you cant present any evidence to support your contention is why you arguments look so silly to anyone knowledgeable or logical..

here's a simple example of what i'm talking about:

you can't refute the fact that pride elite contenders currently is under-performing against their expectations in ufc. so you chose to blindly ignore the obvious evidence by proclaiming nonsensically that barnett >> werdum, so werdum's loss to aa is meaningless. and nog almost being ko'd is somehow justified b/c herring is a "pride" fighter.

so then by your "logic": sakuraba is then an ufc fighter, wandy is an "ufc" fighter, and barnett is an "ufc" fighter (you oh so proud number 3 hw).. see how that works?

ps: i hope it was a joke that you sent me a link to your fantasy mmaplayground record as proof of your "greatness". only thing that proves is you have no credibility in term real mma betting, why would anyone even remotely confident in their own capping ability NOT be betting REAL money?

[Mr biggums]

What does betting real money have anything to do with my ability to pick who wins fights? Whether it's 0$ or 100$ it doesn't matter if I pick correctly. You asked to see my record and I showed you. I'm not trying to prove my so called 'greatness', but I'd like to see your picking history.

Look at Anderson and Rampage. They couldn't come close to the belt in Pride and now they are holding belts in the UFC. Can you explain this or do you still believe that UFC>Pride? Look at MMA rankings that show that former Pride fighters are ranked higher than UFC fighters. The level of competition in Pride was much higher and they didn't protect their fighters like Dana did to Liddell.

Barnett, Wandy, Sakuraba all have more Pride fights than UFC. Combined they have 63 Pride fights and 12 UFC fights. Keep making yourself look stupid.

Did you ever think they are underperforming because the rules are different between the two organizations? It takes time to adjust to the new rules and the cage.

The fact that you beliebe Werdum is better than Barnett instantly ruinds any credibility that you have. I never said it was meaningless, but you stated that Werdum was the #4 HW in Pride which was a flat out lie. Your whole point was that UFC fighters was wooping up on Pride fighters so what does Herring v Nog prove? Nog still won the fight anyways

Chuck can't take world class strikers...virtually nobody but you denies this. He absolutely destroys grapplers and B level strikers. He's still in my top 10 but top 5 is a stretch with his lack of competition.

Any real fan of MMA knows that Pride was leagues ahead than the UFC until the takeover. It's not really up for debate as there is such a large gap.

HW: 4 out of top 5 are Pride-1 UFC
LHW: 4 out of top 5 are Pride-1 UFC
MW: 3 out of top 5 are Pride-2 UFC
WW: 0 out of the top 5 are Pride-5 UFC
LW: 3 out of the top 5 are Pride-2 UFC

http://www.mmaplayground.com/top-10-...spx?Display=LW

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/...&zoneid=15

[Thremp]

biggums,

This is a sports betting board. We typically bet money. You are in the wrong forum. Please remove yourself to "Sporting Events". Aceshigh7 and gregatron need some competition.

[Mr biggums]

I gave my opinion on who would win on the fights. Yes the thread has been derailed but I'm not the only person making off topic posts here.