Flop line question

[JackInDaCrak]

I'm playing LAG but neither of these players has been out-of-line since I saw them. Is this a flop where I want to fire all cannons or did I overdo it?

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $70
UTG+1: $111.05
CO: $103.25
Button: $52
SB: $297.85
Hero: $325.10

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, 2 folds, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($4.5, 4 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $2.25</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $10</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $39</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG raises all-in $69</font>, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises all-in $102.25</font>, Hero calls.

[DrMagic]

Getting it in here is fine, though I may have achieved it a different way, via a bet-3-bet or something

[CrushinFelt]

15 outs

(Any Diamond = 9, 3 5s, 3 8s)

You're a favorite against a set with no blockers.

[wazz]

I'm not convinced by this line. First of all I like to lead out which a) tends to get more money in the pot from weaker draws, b) defines your hand better and c) doesn't overrepresent your hand. Second of all I'm not a huge fan of checkraising a bet that's already been called and a further raise. You're obviously not dropping the hand on the flop but with this action it looks like one or more people have sets, and you certainly don't want to blast them out of the water if they do. Also bear in mind this is an unraised pot. Having checked the flop and seen that action it certainly looks like there's more than one person who likes his hand. You can quite profitably just call that raise in the hopes UTG will continue to pump a hand he might otherwise fold to your checkraise. The obvious downside to this is the possibility of UTG just calling which leads to a tricky spot on the turn should you miss, but if both UTG and CO consider the turn a blank you can still profitably check call all-in having missed.

[blopp]

Dont fold and your doing good. For several reasons I think this is a board in plo where miniraise is sexy, and that isnt often.

- B

[Troll_Inc]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not convinced by this line. First of all I like to lead out which a) tends to get more money in the pot from weaker draws, b) defines your hand better and c) doesn't overrepresent your hand.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think I like to lead out here too at PLO 100. Perhaps this is a hand you play more aggro at higher levels. But at this level, I don't think you really want to push it all in on the flop. (If you were the tight player vs someone else playing LAG, then I'd putting it all in here more, for several reasons.)

Since there are two others in the pot, the analysis becomes a little bit more difficult. You are probably more often up against one set and someone who has some of your outs than you are up against two sets or TTP types of hands where all your outs are good.

You want to build the pot for sure (blopp's check-min_raise looks nice)..but I think you also want to see that turn and be able to outplay your opponents on the turn when your hand is better defined. Instead of having just a small equity edge, you could be a huge favorite when a lot more money could be poured in the pot.

[glass_onion]

Just wondering, how do you outplay your opponents on this pot (on the turn, as you said), especially considering that you said yourself you are pretty sure one if not both has the set???

Assume that the cards everyone knows are blanks hit, i.e. non diamond JQKA, maybe the 2. You aren't outplaying anyone! Set leads out, you call. Folding wouldn't make sense, and raise or not #3 is coming with you due to stack sizes. Doesn't seem like an 'outplaying' situation to me.

Basically on that flop you can push, marginally +EV, or call the flop knowing you are only slightly behind the set on the turn if the board doesn't pair, but get away if it does.

Clarify if I'm missing something. Just seems to be a super-ABC situation here given the read.

[Troll_Inc]

[ QUOTE ]
Assume that the cards everyone knows are blanks hit, i.e. non diamond JQKA, maybe the 2. You aren't outplaying anyone!

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you suggesting that you can't outplay your opponent by folding, when that is the correct play?

If blanks hit on the turn, and depending on further betting, you may be able to fold the hand.
If you hit a good card, especially one that makes a straight, then you can get money in when you are a much bigger favorite.

[glass_onion]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Assume that the cards everyone knows are blanks hit, i.e. non diamond JQKA, maybe the 2. You aren't outplaying anyone!

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you suggesting that you can't outplay your opponent by folding, when that is the correct play?

If blanks hit on the turn, and depending on further betting, you may be able to fold the hand.
If you hit a good card, especially one that makes a straight, then you can get money in when you are a much bigger favorite.

[/ QUOTE ]



Ok, so I misunderstand the word. As my network of poker players use 'outplay' to mean getting a better hand to fold by bluffing, semibluffing, betting scare cards, or using a specific situation to get a similar hand to fold thereby increasing your equity.

If outplay means folding when you obviously should fold, or betting when you have the best hand, then my bad. But then again, I said that in my previous post.

FWIW, i can't think of one 'blank' hitting and/or any betting sequence that I would even think of folding this hand to. Board pairs, you strongly consider folding. If you can come up with another let me know.