Professional No-Limit Hold 'em Study Group Day 1

[Pyromaniac]

if you're trying to price out a draw, shouldn't you be betting at least pot-sized on a flop like that?

[Onaflag]

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if you're trying to price out a draw, shouldn't you be betting at least pot-sized on a flop like that?

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That's why I'm here. I don't know. 1/2 pot denies villain proper odds to call unless you're going to pay him off. I always struggle with the proper bet size.

Either way, you've denied villain odds to call. Now, the card hits and he leads. Do you give up at that point and believe him barring any specific reads like this particular donk always bets scare cards regardless of his holdings.

Onaflag..........

[Matt Flynn]

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Where I make most of my mistakes is when I bet 1/2 pot giving villain implied odds only to hit either his flush or straight draw and then paying off a little bit when he does by maybe calling a smallish turn bet.

Here's my question - if you're trying to price out a draw and that draw appears to come in, do you just give up to ensure you're not giving implied odds to your opponent?

ex: 100BB effective stacks. You raise black aces 4x OTB and get one caller. Pot is 8BB. Flop has 2 hearts, no straight draws. Checked to you and you bet 1/2 pot. Villain calls.

Turn completes the flush and villain leads repping the flush. To deny implied odds, is this an auto fold?

Why do I get the feeling I'm leaving something out and "it depends" is the correct answer?

Thanks for this thread. We all appreciate it.

Onaflag...........

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sadly it still depends. mostly it depends on how often he bluffs. if he doesn't bluff much you can lay down every time and not lose much.

if he does bluff a lot and you're pretty sure he wouldn't value bet a hand that's stronger than yours but less than the flush (actually pretty common situation in low limits but not with all players), a small raise can work well.

[QTip]

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Where I make most of my mistakes is when I bet 1/2 pot giving villain implied odds only to hit either his flush or straight draw and then paying off a little bit when he does by maybe calling a smallish turn bet.

Here's my question - if you're trying to price out a draw and that draw appears to come in, do you just give up to ensure you're not giving implied odds to your opponent?

ex: 100BB effective stacks. You raise black aces 4x OTB and get one caller. Pot is 8BB. Flop has 2 hearts, no straight draws. Checked to you and you bet 1/2 pot. Villain calls.

Turn completes the flush and villain leads repping the flush. To deny implied odds, is this an auto fold?

Why do I get the feeling I'm leaving something out and "it depends" is the correct answer?

Thanks for this thread. We all appreciate it.

Onaflag...........

[/ QUOTE ]


sadly it still depends. mostly it depends on how often he bluffs. if he doesn't bluff much you can lay down every time and not lose much.

if he does bluff a lot and you're pretty sure he wouldn't value bet a hand that's stronger than yours but less than the flush (actually pretty common situation in low limits but not with all players), a small raise can work well.

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When you say a "small raise", are we talking like minraise town or what?

[Disconnected]

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4. A thought experiment: suppose you had to play online poker exclusively and the only bet you could make was a fixed percentage of the pot. They offer you a "bet pot" button with no slider to adjust, but you can change "bet pot" to any size. What would you choose?

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Could it be different by street? On the flop, I seem to find myself gravitating towards 3/4 pot, and on the later streets 2/3.

[bozzer]

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Could it be different by street? On the flop, I seem to find myself gravitating towards 3/4 pot, and on the later streets 2/3.

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same here but increasingly betting bigger on turn too.

[Matt Flynn]

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4. A thought experiment: suppose you had to play online poker exclusively and the only bet you could make was a fixed percentage of the pot. They offer you a "bet pot" button with no slider to adjust, but you can change "bet pot" to any size. What would you choose?

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Could it be different by street? On the flop, I seem to find myself gravitating towards 3/4 pot, and on the later streets 2/3.

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heh that'd be an awesome program for someone who 8-tables.

descending bets relative to the pot work best when you are betting a lot of made hands relative to bluffs. it's because of flop bet sizing. if bluffing a lot you'd like to make your flop bets smaller. that reduces the cost of bluffing, including the cost of firing a second barrel. if betting made hands a lot you often want the pot bigger (for your big hands) so a bigger flop bet size work well.

also when you've got a big hand you usually want your opponents to call, so you sometimes decrement your bet sizes (relative to the pot size) to increase the chances of getting paid off.

[bozzer]

i think it's just because drawing hands are less likely to make an incorrect call with one street to come than they are on the flop.

btw matt, have you heard of the 'bet pot' script? you should check it out; it's more clever than it sounds.

[Matt Flynn]

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btw matt, have you heard of the 'bet pot' script? you should check it out; it's more clever than it sounds.

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link?

[bozzer]

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btw matt, have you heard of the 'bet pot' script? you should check it out; it's more clever than it sounds.

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link?

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http://www.overcards.com/wiki/moin.cgi/AutoHotKey

http://www.overcards.com/wiki/moin.cgi/BetPot