Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes

[Taso]

I agree with Noahxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

That's their law, she lives there, she has to follow it, or get it changed through their system. Not break it.

Do I like the law? Do I think it's a good law? Obviously no.

If she doesn't like it, she should come to America.

[DVaut1]

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Another black eye for Islam as well?

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The humane thing to do would have been to waterboard her. I guess these Muslims are just too barbaric.

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Is this an attempt to equivocate US actions of water-boarding with Saudi Actions in the story?

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It's a sarcastic attempt to discern from adios why the Saudi actions in the story are "a black eye for Islam". When governments run by Muslims do bad things to people, it's a black eye for the religion. When the American government does bad things to people, is it a condemnation of Christianity? Most of the leaders in our government are Christian.

Okay, so the expected right-wing bigot response here is: "zomg but wait, these laws are borne out of Wahhabism; American rule of law isn't dictated by Biblical code -- zomg the inhumanity of Islam!!!!!"

But again, it's nothing but standard demagoguery: find extremist elements of said religion, find when they do a bad thing, say bad thing is black eye on whole religion. Or instead of outright saying it, just wonder aloud and see if the [censored] sticks. "Black eye for Wahhabism" or "black eye for Saudi government" is one thing and obviously true, "black eye for Islam" is just standard right-wing baiting.

Cue adios backtracking, John Killduff/MMMMMM two-thousand word essays on the evils of Islam.

[XXXNoahXXX]

I WAS JOKING FWIW.

I forgot that I was posting in a forum where people actually believe things like that.

[andyfox]

The title of the thread is not misleading at all. She was the victim of a gang rape. Had she not been raped, she would not have been "caught" being in the car of a non-related male. It as precisely the gang rape that has cauased her to be punished.

Anyway, it's not the fact that she broke the law that is upsetting. It's the fact that our ally has such a law on its books.

[bobman0330]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Noahxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

That's their law, she lives there, she has to follow it, or get it changed through their system. Not break it.

Do I like the law? Do I think it's a good law? Obviously no.

If she doesn't like it, she should come to America.

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You can make the original punishment seem other than barbaric, but giving her a higher sentence on retrial is tyranny pure and simple.

[andyfox]

I won't equivocate: your string of posts in this thread are your best ever. You moral relativist.

[theseus51]

Yeah, our two big allies in the Middle East are the authoritarian monarchy in Saudi Arabia, and a military dictator who overthrew a democratically elected leader in Pakistan.

Isn't our policy to be spreading democracy in the region? Just wondering.

[andyfox]

Whatever happened to the president's plan to get us less dependent on oil?

[ConstantineX]

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Another black eye for Islam as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

The humane thing to do would have been to waterboard her. I guess these Muslims are just too barbaric.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this an attempt to equivocate US actions of water-boarding with Saudi Actions in the story?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a sarcastic attempt to discern from adios why the Saudi actions in the story are "a black eye for Islam". When governments run by Muslims do bad things to people, it's a black eye for the religion. When the American government does bad things to people, is it a condemnation of Christianity? Most of the leaders in our government are Christian.

Okay, so the expected right-wing bigot response here is: "zomg but wait, these laws are borne out of Wahhabism; American rule of law isn't dictated by Biblical code -- zomg the inhumanity of Islam!!!!!"

But again, it's nothing but standard demagoguery: find extremist elements of said religion, find when they do a bad thing, say bad thing is black eye on whole religion. Or instead of outright saying it, just wonder aloud and see if the [censored] sticks.

Cue adios backtracking, John Killduff/MMMMMM two-thousand word essays on the evils of Islam.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a sizable difference between the two situations. First, and annoyingly, there's an obvious distinction between scope - whatever you think the US may have perpetrated in the War on Terror (is it yet a factual?) and the repeated brutality we see in the Saudi Kingdom.

But the real question should be the idea of "controlling for" in statistics. Across different types of governments, Muslim' countries tend to have this systematic application of brutal laws and policies. Across different types of governments for Christian nations, you don't see the same trend. Brutality seems independent of Christianity, while positively correlated to Muslim ones. Of course we could not be using other variables, like poverty, development, so on.

But it does suggest a causative link.

Also, which way is the underlying society applying pressure? In America, tentatively it's the government RESISTING calls by a minority its populace to enforce religious norms. In Saudi Arabia its the government ENFORCING calls by its populace (and not a minority of it, either) to enforce those religious norms.

It's not all equal.

[XXXNoahXXX]

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The title of the thread is not misleading at all. She was the victim of a gang rape. Had she not been raped, she would not have been "caught" being in the car of a non-related male. It as precisely the gang rape that has cauased her to be punished.

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that would be like me getting shot in a drive-by while robbing someone. sure, i was the victim of a shooting, and it led to my arrest on the robbery, but i was still guilty of the robbery.

(also see my last post)