Live 10-20 hand.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

I have K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the BTN. 2 fish limp in early position and 1 good player limps in the CO and I call and both blinds call.

I realize that preflop is close between raising and calling. Im sure many 2+2ers may see this as not close and autoraise here every time. With a hand like KQo or AJo, I prefer to just call in this spot and keep the post small instead of building a large 5-6 handed pot. FWIW my precise raising range in this spot is TT,AQo,ATs,KTs,QTs,JTs.

Flop comes out K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Everyone checks to me and I bet. Everyone folds to the good player in the CO who calls. The turn is a 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

He checks, and I check. River is a 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

He bets, I call.

[Chipspin]

I don't quite understand. Why check the turn?

[StrictlyStrategy]

Raise the river, bet the turn.

[99Machine]

Raise to hopefully fold SB and BB and get it four handed. I don't see the point in not raising this preflop. The good player in CO could be limping in with a hand like AJo, JQo or low pocket pairs and your hand beats the 2 limpers for sure...I really don't see what keeping the pot small would accomplish.

It was checked to you on the turn, that's an easy bet with the best hand...but if you thought he'd fold to a bet, it's a raise on the river.

[elffaw]

I think you should bet/fold the turn (since he is a live 'good' player playing 10/20).

[brettbrettr]

I feel like I've seen this hand before.

[n.s.]

Let's see if I can make sense of this...

Since the good player didn't bet the flop, you figure that he's not that likely to have 2 clubs - after he calls your bet, he most likely has some sort of peeling hand like a pair+BDFD. The 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the turn kills his backdoor outs, and since you've got 2 pair now, if he's got a hand like 78 then he's only got 2 outs to beat you instead of 5. With only 4 BB in the pot, you don't mind giving him a small chance to beat you, since your check behind looks so much like a flush draw that he'll bet the river pretty much every time, whereas he'll usually fold to your turn bet. On the river you have the best hand most of the time, but you just call because the good player won't call a raise unless you are beat.

The only thing that doesn't make sense is that I can't think of any hands that a good player would play this way on the flop. What hand is he willing to call a bet with (heads-up, OOP, against another good player) that he won't bet himself after most of the field checks to him?

[Entity]

I'd pretty much always bet the turn here. The rest of the hand looks good.

Rob

[cowboy billy]

well, if he really is good, he doesn't have a king, a 7, a pp higher than a 7, a flush draw and a straight draw isn't possible

so basically, he's gotta be holding a 2 and you should fold to his river bet, bc I can't think of a hand this good player could be value betting and he can't have air either bc he wouldn't have called your flop bet

but folding is rather impossible, which leaves you with calling only, which is fine bc he could actually be holding the 7, although I'm not sure he'd be betting it on the river, bc I'd see more value in inducing a bluff from his perspective

I am raising KQ pre flop all day though and I think calling (other than the occasional mix up) is wrong

*here I wrote a couple lines to explain this, but I don't want to offend you by 'educating' you about basic stuff, which you probably know a lot more about than me, so I deleted it*

I'd love to hear more about not raising this hand pre flop though and why you think not raising will get you more value from the hand, bc I really really don't see it

[Scary_Tiger]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the river, bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

The good player isn't nearly as good as you might think.