Two Tens facing an open shove (Stars 100k)

[mastr]

I think you guys are all crazy and your weighing of hands is weigh off. I feel TT is the absolute margin and its very hard but prob +EV call and JJ is an instacall.

[PantsOnFire]

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I think you guys are all crazy and your weighing of hands is weigh off. I feel TT is the absolute margin and its very hard but prob +EV call and JJ is an instacall.

[/ QUOTE ]
There are too many variables. Somebody here did a reasonable range calculation and TT is about 50/50.

However, I factor in the following: My stack vs. the all-in stack size, all other stack sizes, the blinds, how active the table is, how loose the other players are, how tough the other players are, your own table image, whether you are playing for first or to make the most money, etc.

I think these factors can swing your EV one way or the other. It's very situational. Those programs like PokerStove that calculate EV can't take all of these other factors into consideration.

[mastr]

the range wasn't reasonable at all. Although it held probably all his possible hands. The range is hugely weighted towards the hands that we beat and hugely skewed away from the hands that beat us. The times that this is QQKKAA is so slim and the times that this is AK is huge. JJ is prob in here a lot which is why with JJ its super insta call but TT looks pretty solid here from my view

[Eagles]

Fold I'd call QQ and JJ is close. The thing is a lot of people never go deep in these things so they get really excited and don't want to bust so they do stupid stuff like shove KK/AA here.

[lemming]

I would fold... I don't like calling my whole stack at this stage to what is a coinflip at best (even though there's a slight possibility he's got a lower pair). I wouldn't risk it, but that's just me!

with JJ I'm having a harder time folding, but I probably would fold as well, QQ I'm probably calling without much hesitation

[TheFoxNL]

villian has like 34xBB
M prob around 17

the thing that makes this play so strange is that he doesnt need to go All In with QQ+ AQ+
i mean if it were me i would just wanted to get value out of those hands instead of getting the blinds
with that range i would still want a caller and face a flop

i cant see why AK wouldnt want to see a flop here
counting on villian to be a decent player making it to last 40ish
ofcourse this could be Aj+ and JJ+

but except for JJ or lower pair i couldnt see what player that made it this far would just open push with an M of 17 with a hand he can make enough value with just playing


thats why i said i would expect a smaller pair here

[lemming]

Good reasoning behind this...

Although I personally sometimes play this the same when I'm holding QQ+, just to throw in some variations, hoping to get other players to think I'm holding a smaller pair... But I think in general, you may be very right, this might well be some 55-1010 or similar... Anyway, I stick to my point, I don't fancy calling here for half my stack...

[HEK]

I tanked and folded, a short stack behind me called with somethingorother.

Villian had 55 [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Yeah I guess it's a fold overall. Yet this is one of those times where I wanted to call REAAAALLLY bad because I obv I wanna make it deep and also have a big stack going towards the final table. But 55? Wtf?

[ImOnWheels]

I remember a situation I was in a while ago in a big sunday and I made the call with 1010. He had go ole AK like I thought but I was looking to accumulate some chips. Spiked an ace..oh well. I agree with whoever said this is gonna be AK ALOT and some 88-jj.

[TheFoxNL]

lol ok here it goes

"i told you so"

hehe j/k