BaronZeus vid hands turned into BankRoll Related thread

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thought I would start a micro's post on the topic.

I didn't like the stars 99 hand

BZ is in OTB 5handed with 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
he 3bets and mindgamer in SB 3bets ... BZ caps
<font color="green">i think cap is pretty standard especially against someone who is playing back at you hard</font>

flop 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
BZ bets and MG calls

turnA [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
BZ bet/folds

<font color="green">in spots like this (ie. against an aggressive tard) I'll check behind (and call most rivers; i wont like K-J) ... my check is mostly due to the PF cap. the cap gives you a much narrower range (it's not like you have A4o here ... villain can put hero on pockets or big aces AK, AQ. Betting the turn allows an aggressive opponent to outplay you (especially if you appear to be able to bet/fold ... bet/fold is great tool, but can also be a curse)</font>

<font color="red">edit</font>
lol ... OK, so he says this a couple of hands after

mod edit: the thread morphed so title modified to reflect this

[Smurph64]

yeah he states if I recall that the bet/fold line has to be dropped to c/c once in awhile to keep them honest.

Others noted he folds too much which I thought a bit too, especially one hand where I thought it was bet/call for sure. Not sure if he gets distracted when he had the phone calls and action on both tables.

The thing that got me for the most part was his attitude, which was obviously a lot calmer than I would be with some of the suckouts he had against him.

I think I counted 8 suckouts. I have definitely had sessions liket that but when you lose 4.50 instead of 450 on a hand its a lot easier to be calm.

$450 is my mortgage payment, 4.50 is lunch.

[Bulletproof Monk]

i bet/call there

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i bet/call there

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IMO - once you bet call you pretty much give up your hand an let a reasonable player bet or check the river correctly

are you calling any river (just to look him up?) ... you'll be putting in 3big bets into this pot at this point (this is far too many)

if you want to 'look him up' ... the 3rd alternative (not to be used too often) is 3bet/fold check behind

I generally will use this against a player that has been playing back at me a little too often (it will either calm them down for a while, or make them pay off more)

[aK13]

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yeah he states if I recall that the bet/fold line has to be dropped to c/c once in awhile to keep them honest.

Others noted he folds too much which I thought a bit too, especially one hand where I thought it was bet/call for sure. Not sure if he gets distracted when he had the phone calls and action on both tables.

The thing that got me for the most part was his attitude, which was obviously a lot calmer than I would be with some of the suckouts he had against him.

I think I counted 8 suckouts. I have definitely had sessions liket that but when you lose 4.50 instead of 450 on a hand its a lot easier to be calm.

$450 is my mortgage payment, 4.50 is lunch.

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In the thread in the mid-hi short handed, everyone thought he was way more emotional than he should have been. This is an interesting observation -- just shows that as you move up you should be more immune to changing your attitude towards suckouts. All the high stakes think he is more emotional, lower stakes think he is less.

He's a RL friend of mine who started the same time I did, but just invested way more time and was frankly just better than me by a lot. I watched it and basically thought he hasn't changed since I watched him grind micro stakes.

This hand and his folding KJ on QJT board to a bet/raise stood out to me most. I talked to him and he's convinced he probably should have checked turn and called a river bet against this opponent with 99.

[bravos1]

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$450 is my mortgage payment, 4.50 is lunch.

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This is a really poor way of looking at things! 7-8 bets is 7-8 bets irrespective to the fact that it is $450 instead of $4.50 or even $4500!

LOL @ you're mortgage being $450... wanna switch mortgages? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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$450 is my mortgage payment, 4.50 is lunch.

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This is a really poor way of looking at things! 7-8 bets is 7-8 bets irrespective to the fact that it is $450 instead of $4.50 or even $4500!

LOL @ you're mortgage being $450... wanna switch mortgages? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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QFT

when i play I don't even pay attention to the amount of bets that have gone into the pot

when I first moved 2-4 pots seemed to be so large (and most likely effected my play) ... I stayed there for a long time (despite have a roll to move up on multiple sites)

an odd thing happened to be when I went down to Aruba earlier this year ... and it changed my perspective on the game
first day I played a 3-6 game (it sucked so bad and moved so slow that it wasn't even interesting)
a couple of days when by my gang had a early night (being a night worker, I was pretty bored and had about 5hours to kill before I would be sleepy)
there was a 3-6 and 20-40 kill game going ... i was looking at both (i knew i could take the higher game ... and it seemed more like a 'Game' then playing 'cards' - if you know what i mean)
i sat down with 1K (told myself who cares if I lose it) ... and I'm not sure what happened. Third hand in I pick up AK, and doubled my stake ([censored]!!!!! - a 1K pot, Jesus H Christ ... it should have made me wet my pants, but in my head it was 'just a pot' it was no different)

whatever happened it was transcendental ... every hand I play now is just ' a hand' ... every pot, just 'a pot' - if i lose or win it doesn't really matter, in the end I'll win my standard win rate.
This major attitude change has allowed my to move up without really noticing what level I'm (currently I'm playing mostly 5/10, and 10/20 a few times ... but still play 1-2 at a couple of site where I'm working off a bonus ... I'll still play within a reasonable limit for whatever roll I have, but when I play in my head, 10c/20c is no different than $10/$20 . Only who you are playing and what the situation is matters. Tolerance to loss is a great skill in this game

just my 2cents

[Smurph64]

Thanks for the info there PB. I completely agree with you BUT my mind isn't there yet. Although the comment was meant to be humourous I was saying it because I know that is the ideal point of view to have but one that I cannot bring myself to.

That is why I cashed out 2 times already, because even though I am ready to play 3-6 easy enough I just can't justify 'gambling' that money when I still owe money and the winnings were used to buy such things as this computer that I am typing on now and getting my car fixed.

From a micro point of view, I think its important to know what you are doing and care about the money because it does become very easy to think awe its just chips or its just 4 bucks and before you know it, its donked away.

From a personal point of view I am living on a fixed income and still owe 20k from when I first got sick. I know there are others in the micros who should move up as well but for whatever reason they stay at the micro levels.

This comes from a guy who lost $250k(which took me 2 years to build up) in one day on the stock market, so I value the money for what it is worth to me now more than ever.

That one day is a reminder to me of what risk is and what happens when you stop thinking about it as money.

The thing is, people may say, but you are a winning player (well they may not say it but I am a winning player with 99% certainty) and therefore its just profit but when you have the money in your pocket no matter how its gained it is yours to use.

By taking the money out of my account when I did I basically did a few things. I gave myself time to study some more and enjoy my winnings for the accomplishment of what it was.

No matter what happens now in poker for me, the quality of my life and my families life has improved.

Tolerance to lose money disappears when your life changes because of it.

I think the same can be said for winning. Tolerance to win money is just as important. I still get rooked when I take someone for 6 bucks at a micro limit table, then do it again when he reloads. If I get that high from winning, its inevitable that I get low when I lose.

I think that is the major difference between a professional and an amateur player, the ability that you describe, to be able to win or lose without severe emotional attachment to the outcome of the match.

I am getting better at it but still have a ways to go.

[bravos1]

This is the whole premise behind BR management.

If your stock portfolio was worth $15 Billion, then losing $250K on one day would not be an issue. (please note that I am not trying to offend you here, only show a point)

The is the importance of being adequately rolled for the limits you play. Thinking about how much money you are actually losing or winning or how big in $$ the pots are will typically (prolly 95%) force you to play sub-optimally. When you do this, it is 100% -EV.

[Fantam]

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This is the whole premise behind BR management.

If your stock portfolio was worth $15 Billion, then losing $250K on one day would not be an issue. (please note that I am not trying to offend you here, only show a point)

The is the importance of being adequately rolled for the limits you play. Thinking about how much money you are actually losing or winning or how big in $$ the pots are will typically (prolly 95%) force you to play sub-optimally. When you do this, it is 100% -EV.

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QFT

Nothing to add.