disputing a visa debit charge for poker-has anyone done this before?

mermaid · #1 10-01-2007, 10:45 AM

This is my first post, and I just want to begin by saying this is a great forum. Now for my problem. I share a visa debit card with someone in my household, and this card is linked to our checking account. While going over the bank statement, I see several charges I know nothing of, but total almost 2 thousand dollars. Long story short, I call the bank, who give me the names of "merchants" from various states, some with phone numbers, for which the charges arose. I call a number, and speak to someone who tells me nothing other than he processes credit cards for online
"merchants."

I confront my man, who refuses to admit he played on a online poker site, (but I now am sure of it)which brings me to this forum. Being that Visa doesn't legally allow this, when I visit my branch to file a claim, I am certain I wont have to be responsible for these debits. Anyone else ever find themself in this boat I am in? If so, please post. The only research I found so far is this:http://www.ibls.com/internet_law_new...ws&id=1772

And please, don't be judgemental here about how I should just accept the loss if I know the guy played online--I already thought about this myself. The bottom line is that if it's illegal for Visa to be used for this purpose, why should I be penalized because some merchant/site decided to try and break the law to get/launder money?

Knighthawk · #2 10-01-2007, 11:38 AM

You or whoever used the card is absolutely responsible for the charges. You may be able to get out paying it (or whoever did the charges), but that doesn't make it right.

The person who made the charges is responsible for it, and if you don't trust him enough with the card you need to get his name off it. However, if he doesn't pay, you should.

You said don't be judgemental, but it is very unfair for legitimate cardholders when you charge back charges that were meant to occur. If someone stole your card, that would be very different. Here, someone authorized to use your card authorized charges on it. Your dispute is with him, not the credit card companies of the sites.

mermaid · #3 10-01-2007, 11:53 AM

Well, think of it this way. Someone under 21 goes to Vegas, get inside of a casino, plays a slot machine, and wins a jackpot. Once security finds out he is underage, they will not pay him his winnings, becuase he wasn't allowed to be there in the first place. Same with my problem...my (or our if you prefer) visa card isn't allowed to be accepted by an online gambling site, they take it anyway, but then, if someone like me decides to blow the whistle and say sorry, you weren't allowed to take the funds in the first place, how is it any different?

LetsGetItOn · #4 10-01-2007, 12:35 PM

On a moral level it is different because he would've got the money had he won (assuming he wasn't playing on a rogue site). I doubt this is disputable and for 2k I believe the credit card company won't take it lieing on their back. On another note sharing a card usually isn't a great idea.

mermaid · #5 10-01-2007, 12:43 PM

from op:

Why Don't Credit Cards Allow Online Gambling Charges?
The answer to this question has several parts. First, the practice of online gambling is illegal in the U.S., the largest economy in the world. So it is simple common sense that these cards would block such transactions, in the interest of not being prosecuted as aiding illegal activity. But there are other reasons the major credit cards do not want involvement in this business. This is a completely unregulated industry in many places in the world, and great sums of money are involved. There are many shady characters associated with some of the online casinos and so this alone makes Visa and Mastercard nervous.

For instance, what happens when a consumer refuses to pay credit card charges claiming he never gambled online or claiming he was cheated? How would the credit card companies adjudicate these disputes in a scenario involving a small, lawless country with no regulations? In fact, this is exactly what happened before the card companies cut off funding in California, where a woman was charged $80,000 for gambling debts she claimed she did not owe. When the credit card company sued the woman, the court ruled for her, saying she did not have to pay the charges. Then, there is also the issue of money laundering, and how terrorists or mafia types could so easily misuse a type of business where large sums change hand in foreign clime and are repatriated elsewhere, all by wire.

Mitch Evans · #6 10-01-2007, 01:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, think of it this way. Someone under 21 goes to Vegas, get inside of a casino, plays a slot machine, and wins a jackpot. Once security finds out he is underage, they will not pay him his winnings, becuase he wasn't allowed to be there in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Silly. Unless you can say if said underage individual LOST money at a casino, and then told them he was underage and they gave him his money back, your analogy makes no sense.

Good thing you didn't post this in the internet forum... you would be flamed left and right because everyone here knows there is no boyfriend, you donked off your money, and now you want to try to get your gambling debt off your back under some false pretense. Live and learn. Ask your folks for the money, get another job... hold yourself responsible for your actions.

Okay, since you're going to say it really isn't you, and it's your boyfriend yada yada yada... in the slim chance that's the case, deal with it with your boyfriend. It's not any institution's fault you have a scumbag boyfriend. If it's a joint checking account, take him to court and he will be held responsible; if it's only your name on the account, it's your debt because you gave him permission to use the card. Whatever. It's not the law, the site, the bank's problem- it is your problem.

NeBlis · #7 10-01-2007, 01:12 PM

Your husband or boyfriend using your joint account,without permission, to play with money he doesn't have

SCUMBAG MOVE

Your attempt to use an unjust, ill defined law, to reverse legitimate charges

SCUMBAG MOVE

sounds like a match made in heaven

mermaid · #8 10-01-2007, 01:21 PM

To Mitch-there is no debt at all. The money was in our account, free and clear, and he used a debit card to make deposits on a site. I don't know, or care, if he won or lost (I assume lost) but there is no debt. I am looking to recover that money now as the card has a visa logo, and visa doesn't permit these transactions. The site uses illegal (i assume) 3rd party merchants to get the money. Its a scam. I am not in the wrong here.

Mitch Evans · #9 10-01-2007, 01:34 PM

Yes, I'm well aware of the difference between a credit and debit account. How do you use the phrase "recover that money" and not call it a debt? Yes, you are in the wrong. You are trying to get money that your boyfriend stole from you from a source that is not responsible for the theft. It's not anyone's fault but your boyfriend's.

oldbookguy · #10 10-01-2007, 01:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I share a visa debit card with someone in my household, and this card is linked to our checking account.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, so, this is a joint account and belongs to both of you, so stated in your OP.

Since this is a shared, joint account, once deposited funds are there, they are, or are in my household, jointly owned funds.

So, perhaps you should have your OWN account if you do not wish to co-own the funds.

Just a thought.....

BTW, in Matercard v a group of gamblers a few years ago, 2 Federal Courts ruled only Sports Betting was illegal, if your 'Friend' was playing poker, no federal law was broken unless there is a state law saying so first.....

MasterCard won and collected the debt from the bettors.

obg