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#32
07-15-2007, 05:57 PM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] They've been around for at least 250 million years. [/ QUOTE ] Cockroaches should have 10,000,000 IQs by now. [/ QUOTE ] how many generations of humans before DS (as he is now) would be the fool? and if he could be transported to that future would he want to go? chez [/ QUOTE ] Is Brandi there? [/ QUOTE ] Who or what is Brandi? chez 
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#33
07-15-2007, 06:07 PM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] They've been around for at least 250 million years. [/ QUOTE ] Cockroaches should have 10,000,000 IQs by now. [/ QUOTE ] how many generations of humans before DS (as he is now) would be the fool? and if he could be transported to that future would he want to go? chez [/ QUOTE ] Is Brandi there? [/ QUOTE ] Who or what is Brandi? chez [/ QUOTE ] You can't be serious.
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#34
07-15-2007, 06:21 PM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] They've been around for at least 250 million years. [/ QUOTE ] Cockroaches should have 10,000,000 IQs by now. [/ QUOTE ] how many generations of humans before DS (as he is now) would be the fool? and if he could be transported to that future would he want to go? chez [/ QUOTE ] Is Brandi there? [/ QUOTE ] Who or what is Brandi? chez [/ QUOTE ] You can't be serious. [/ QUOTE ] I'm struggling to think of anything that could be brandi that might exist in this future that could make any difference as to whether DS would want to be there. chez
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#35
07-15-2007, 06:44 PM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] They've been around for at least 250 million years. [/ QUOTE ] Cockroaches should have 10,000,000 IQs by now. [/ QUOTE ] how many generations of humans before DS (as he is now) would be the fool? and if he could be transported to that future would he want to go? chez [/ QUOTE ] Is Brandi there? [/ QUOTE ] Who or what is Brandi? chez [/ QUOTE ] You can't be serious. [/ QUOTE ] I'm struggling to think of anything that could be brandi that might exist in this future that could make any difference as to whether DS would want to be there. chez [/ QUOTE ] This might be the first and last time I ever say this to anyone, but you should check out NVG.
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#36
07-15-2007, 07:10 PM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] They've been around for at least 250 million years. [/ QUOTE ] Cockroaches should have 10,000,000 IQs by now. [/ QUOTE ] how many generations of humans before DS (as he is now) would be the fool? and if he could be transported to that future would he want to go? chez [/ QUOTE ] Is Brandi there? [/ QUOTE ] Who or what is Brandi? chez [/ QUOTE ] You can't be serious. [/ QUOTE ] I'm struggling to think of anything that could be brandi that might exist in this future that could make any difference as to whether DS would want to be there. chez [/ QUOTE ] This might be the first and last time I ever say this to anyone, but you should check out NVG. [/ QUOTE ] ok, got it now (if I'm expected to remember their names they need to name themselves after famous hotels). I'm more than happy to believe DS about their relationship but either way their wouldn't be any relationship if he was a fool so the answer 'it depends on Brandi being there' must be wrong. (Didn't DS write an article about this once). Still be interested if DS answered the question seriously. chez
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#37
07-16-2007, 12:22 AM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
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Yeah, but the fitness landscape is part of real evolution. Stu is only attacking straw-man evolution. [/ QUOTE ] Hi Thylacine I'm not attacking anything. I'm not claiming evolution doesn't exist. I am merely questioning the aspects of it that do not make sense to me. about fitness landscapes "An evolving population typically climbs uphill in the fitness landscape, by a series of small genetic changes, until a local optimum is reached (Fig. 1). There it remains, unless a rare mutation opens a path to a new, higher fitness peak." I don't agree with the bolded part. "Unless" needs to be changed to "Until". The mutation leading to a higher fitness plateu is inevitable. My question is why is it taking so long in Crocodiles? Crocs live in many and varied habitats around the world, and they've changed little since the time of the dinosuars. The only explanation I can think of is Crocodiles have evolved an extremely robust method of correcting mutations...several orders better than other animals on this planet. Stu
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#38
07-16-2007, 01:06 AM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
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What exactly is a 'beneficial mutation' to a species that is perfectly adapted to its environment? [/ QUOTE ] The earth is a dynamic place. I think its safe to say there aren't any animals which are perfectly adapted to thier environments. People should stop using the phrase "perfectly adapted to its environment" when talking about evolution. Stu
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#39
07-16-2007, 05:17 AM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] What exactly is a 'beneficial mutation' to a species that is perfectly adapted to its environment? [/ QUOTE ] The earth is a dynamic place. I think its safe to say there aren't any animals which are perfectly adapted to thier environments. People should stop using the phrase "perfectly adapted to its environment" when talking about evolution. Stu [/ QUOTE ] Of course. The point is, its suited ENOUGH to its environment that any drastic change is practically guaranteed to be a negative one. Imagine a microscope. You look in, and you can pretty much see what it is you are looking for. Cranking the focus knob in either direction is pretty much guaranteed to make the picture worse, even if you aren't perfectly focused to begin with. So, no drastic changes for species that are already in focus.
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#40
07-16-2007, 05:21 AM
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Re: Crocodiles, why arn\'t they smart?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Yeah, but the fitness landscape is part of real evolution. Stu is only attacking straw-man evolution. [/ QUOTE ] Hi Thylacine I'm not attacking anything. I'm not claiming evolution doesn't exist. I am merely questioning the aspects of it that do not make sense to me. about fitness landscapes "An evolving population typically climbs uphill in the fitness landscape, by a series of small genetic changes, until a local optimum is reached (Fig. 1). There it remains, unless a rare mutation opens a path to a new, higher fitness peak." I don't agree with the bolded part. "Unless" needs to be changed to "Until". The mutation leading to a higher fitness plateu is inevitable. My question is why is it taking so long in Crocodiles? Crocs live in many and varied habitats around the world, and they've changed little since the time of the dinosuars. The only explanation I can think of is Crocodiles have evolved an extremely robust method of correcting mutations...several orders better than other animals on this planet. Stu [/ QUOTE ] Inevitable is a pretty loaded term. Some beneficial mutation is probably inevitable, but think of it like activation energy. If the species is very well adapted, that local maximum is going to be a pretty steep one, and its going to take a lot of 'energy' to get over the hump. Evolution tends to have a big problem with situations like this...there aren't any catalysts. However, eventually some mutation will be beneficial ENOUGH, probably, to overcome just about any barrier. How long will this take? Depends on a lot of things, and I'm not qualified to give any answer. I don't see why you are so sure that croc's have surpassed any reasonable estimation. Again, look at bacteria. They are so well-adapted that they've been around for billions of years, and they haven't grown brains or wings or ovaries or anything.
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