Proposed internet poker ban in MA

[Skallagrim]

Randy isnt wrong. The only Federal Law that can be interpreted to make a Poker site illegal is the Wire Act and the case cited says the Wire Act only applies to sportsbetting. It was the highest court to rule on the issue so far.

Poker is not specifically mentioned in Mass statutes. Generally, a game is "gambling" and hence illegal in Mass if its a game of chance. If its a game of skill its legal. Which do you think poker is? Same with online poker, but there is even more reason to believe Mass law does not apply online (it never mentions online, it criminalizes places of gambling and private residences are not among those places, and it arguably violates the Constitution's commerce clause).

Under the new law, any online wagering on anything becomes illegal (unless permafrost is appointed to the Mass court and rules, for the first time anywhere, that wagering can only happen on games of chance) and players can get prison sentences.

Skallagrim

[MassPoker]

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Permafrost, WHY do ask andf have answered the same question, over and over and over and over.......

Ma. law does NOT prohibit games of skill (even wagering and the house getting a fee), E.G., World Winner, a skill games company is located in Ma., that should be enough to answer that question.

The argument is poker falls under that same category, skill games, unlike craps, roulette, slots, ect. An AG opinion is that, an opinion, not a court of law ruling by a judge.

Stop eating ice cream and let the frost thaw!

obg - NOT representing the PPA, my Opin only


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Greetings Again From MA PPA Rep!

Our primary focus and/or ultimate goals here are this:

c)To ultimately have the section of the bill that seeksto ban and criminalize online gaming (poker inclusive) stricken from the bill.



All In,

Randy C~
MA PPA Representative

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You imply that Massachusetts online gaming is currently legal, apparently with PPA blessing. Would you be kind enough to explain that stance and how it came about? It is contrary to a more logical and accepted reality. I ask because it is only a matter of time until a smart foe sees the contradictions in this position. It would be nice to have your rebuttal thought out or the stance changed prior to that.

In explaining, some answers to the following questions would help. Thanks in advance for your reply to a long time PPA member, no rush.
1. The current MA law talks about fines and prison for persons betting on the results of a game. And the MA Attorney General opined that poker tournaments are illegal for players and suppliers, other than charities. A Harvard law professor has echoed the AG’s “restrictions”. Why is PPA implying an internet poker business and its players, conducting business and serving players in MA, is somehow not subject to MA law? PokerStars may be a good example.

2. If a PokerStars type casino is not subject to current MA law and regulation, why is this new bill needed to license and regulate proposed B&M casinos? And could PokerStars show up and build a B&M there without regulation?

3. If a PokerStars type casino is indeed subject to current MA (or other state’s) law and regulations, is PPA interested in fighting the current laws that criminalize unlicensed casino poker and often players, along with fighting proposed restrictions?

4. If online racing bets are regulated in MA, why are PokerStars type casinos okay?

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Well, I’m still waiting for Randy’s reply and may add a few questions; however many thanks for your response. Let me try to first clear up your confusion about my posts in this thread.

I have two separate stances; one is on MA skill games. If they are currently legal, the bill creating a Gaming Control Authority won’t have any effect on those games. The bill's new wager definition for Gaming Control doesn’t include normally defined skill games.

The rest of my post is on another stance. It is about MA law of gaming/poker; it is illegal for the site and player NOW. This is based on facts, commonsense, law and because MA says so. PPA implied it is now legal and haven’t said why.

I asked some questions that you quoted above. You answer that the AG is wrong and say the argument is that poker is skill. So, to see if this is indeed the official PPA line, let me add some questions/thoughts for Randy, if you don't mind:

5. Is it the PPA stance that the AG is confused and poker is a legal skill game in MA? If no, what does exclude/exempt it from MA anti-gambling law, if anything? If yes, explain why WorldWinner does not have poker as part of their internet skill game offerings.

Until you show reasons for current legality, I think it wise to believe what MA tells me about MA law, rather than what PPA wishes were true. A lot of gambling companies think it wise also, obviously, or they would open shop. TIA and take your time to get it right.

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In response to your query. You indicate, falsely, that MA law currently prohibits online poker. Can you please refer me to the specific law that asserts this position? I have poured over legal standards and arguments and have found absolutely nothing that supports your assertion that online poker is illegal in MA, and until such time that you can provide legislation to the contrary, then I will assume you are speaking of something you have no actual knowledge of.

Here is what I base MY facts that I have quoted above on. First, If MA already had legislation specifically prohibiting online poker, then why would the Governor of MA proposed legislation to ban/criminalize it again? The fact is, their is nothing currently on the books that specifically prohibit online poker in MA.

Additionally, just because some clerk in the Governor's office(who I have spoken with and he admitted to me that he had NO ACTUAL KNOWLEDGE OF ANY BILL OR CURRENT/HOLDING LAW THAT PROHIBITS ONLINE POKER) doesn't make it so. As far as the AG's position on poker, I was one of six people who sought to have then Attorny General Thomas Reilly to clarify MA position on B and M poker tourney's, and On June 30th 2004, he did so. But he made no reference whatsoever to online poker.

So, I place the ball back in your court, Perma. Please refer me to specific legislation that demonstrates MA banning online poker and I will retract my earlier statement. Until then, I stand by what I posted...period!

Also, I am still in WA state until Dec 6th...So, if I am late in replying to postings this will explain that. I'll do the best that I can to stay on top of emails and postings.

All In,

Randy C
MA PPA Rep