how to play luckbox fishes?

[GeeBeeQED]

I agree generally with what I've seen written here. However with just one pair I lean towards 70-80% bets (pot ok) on flop and I like to overbet the pot against the fish to get rid of him on the turn. Many of these players won't call with only 1 card to come. You said you "know" he would but I doubt that you really do. If you had an error free crystal ball you'd not have been on this bad run lately.

It's important to clairify, I'd mostly play AA against better quality players differently and that's not what we are talking about here.

Pigs get slaugtered. Take a nice bite out of him then make a big bet on the turn. If he calls or raises you've got a new decision to make.

I think the one argument against pot betting the whole way that nobody has mentioned is this. If your habit is to build monster pots with calling stations then your giving his portion of the variance the best opportunity to make the maximum $$. Even if he's only 30% he's still going to get you, even twice in a row from time to time. Realize this isn't the last hand your going to play with this fish. He's probably in the game until he's busted and that's probably many hands. You'll get another shot. Also, they are more likely to reload when they get mini swings up and down and peter out of money. I want him to reload a couple of times and keep feeding the table.

There are other considerations and arguments with value besides taking the largest EV move for every short term gain. A poker game is a group of many hands. Bad players lose over the long run. I think there is some value when you've got mediocre but probably best hands (like top pair good kicker for example) in letting the fish blow off his chips over the long run just like he's supposed to do. If instead you think bad players are suppossed to lose all thier money in 4 to 6 hands then your patience for the game is probably not in line with the reality of poker.

Going broke after the flop with Aces or Kings is something I try to avoid. In general it's a sucker who does this, I don't care how good you think you are, you are one of the donaters if you think it's ok to go broke after the flop with top pair/overpair type hands in live action cash games. I've done this from time to time and every time I've been stupid for doing it. If I read the original poster correctly, he agrees with my sentiments here. Cash games are about bleading your opponents over many hands and slaughering one from time to time with big hands. Top pair is not a big hand. Play it too big and it may your head that's rolling into the basket.

It's often said about a fish that his biggest mistake is that he calls too much. However I'd narrow that down. It often seems to me the most common error is calling to see the turn card too much. They hit the flop with a gutter or a middle pair, you bet, they call knowing in thier heart they are probably behind but they want to see that turn card and see if they can catch up or get help. If they hit another pair, get open ended str8 or a flush draw, and etc.. they stay. Very often they will dump the gutters and middle pair hands on the turn if they've not improved as long as you bet the right amount to trigger that players "get out of Dodge" muscle.

Sure, with a better hand you play to get him all in or build the maximum pot. That is of course a different question out of the scope of the initial question.

Dave

[Rek]

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Ah - you need additional good karma.

Try sitting down for a session and pledging 25% of all winnings to charity.

Last night I chose 'The Rainbow Trust' which is a charity for dying kids here in the UK

PokerEV tells me I should have won $44 in my 1 hour session.
In fact I won over $333 ..I logged onto the charity's website at 11pm and gifted them the $85.

Now the other players at my tables last night (especially the one with KK when I had JJ and hit my set) could be posting here complaining about my luckbox - but you see I ordered the luckbox when I chose to help the dying kiddies.

If you are trying to win a coin-flip with me when you just want to spend winnings on hookers and blow or something and I am helping dying kiddies, then poker gods are going to tilt the scales my way. And that's the best reason to give to any charity.

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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What tosh.

Don't know if this was a serious post or not. If it was well done on your charity work. Barry Greenstein will be proud of you. However, poker gods do look down and pick the most "worthy" to win - if you are a bad player you will lose if you play long enough. The same way as winners will win if they play long enough. It comes down to talent not karma.

[excession]

LOL - it certainly did happen and I did donate 25% to the charity - but was it serious advice?

Clue - notice the wink smilie at the foot of the post.

Talent alone isn't enough btw - discipline is far more important for beginners - talent is way overrated..

And playing for a 'higher purpose' on occasion does sometimes help to alleviate the daily grind and can improve how you feel about yourself and your long term results..

[Rek]

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LOL - it certainly did happen and I did donate 25% to the charity - but was it serious advice?

Clue - notice the wink smilie at the foot of the post.

Talent alone isn't enough btw - discipline is far more important for beginners - talent is way overrated..

And playing for a 'higher purpose' on occasion does sometimes help to alleviate the daily grind and can improve how you feel about yourself and your long term results..

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[img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] Didn't notice smiley [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Also I meant to say "poker gods DON'T look down". When I say talent to me that incorporates everything including discipline. So I think we agree there.

Good on you for the charity though. As I say, I wasn't sure if the post was genuine. Nice one. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Xanthro]

You seriously need to learn basics of poker.

If you are afraid that someone is drawing on you or won't fold a piece of the flop when you are ahead, so you don't bet, you have no business calling someone else a fish.

You claim to have 7,000 hand history with the person in question, and that over that period they are a winning player. Perhaps this person isn't a fish, but has figured out that your play is easily exploitable.

Checking when you are ahead for pot control is simply silly. You have to CHARGE people for chasing draws.

[jmitchell42]

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spend winnings on hookers and blow or something
[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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vote for NC thread title.