Pool handicapping?

[WhiteKnight]

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Answer: If I am enough better than player B, he/she will never win a single game unless I choose to allow it to happen in 8 ball. In 9 ball this is not necessarily true. That is why 8 ball is so much harder to handicap than any other form of pool.

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OK, maybe. Like at a ridiculously high caliber of competition, I might believe you, but this isn't really my area of expertise. My intuition says that this is way wrong tho, reasoning that Chess variance < Pool Variance, and Garry Kasparov has both drawn and lost games during a period when he was undoubtedly the best active player in the world. Furthermore, I have friends that I know are "better" than me like 100% for sure, but I beat every once in a while.

In fact, after some thought, asserting that the higher skilled player wins 100% of the time seems completely off-mark. Assuming that the lesser player is capable of racking the table (which even I've done with limited pool experience over many games), then he will win at least one game in the long run (DUCY?).

So my answer still stands --> Just offer odds based on the seeming skill-discrepancy.

[Jimbo]

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Answer: If I am enough better than player B, he/she will never win a single game unless I choose to allow it to happen in 8 ball. In 9 ball this is not necessarily true. That is why 8 ball is so much harder to handicap than any other form of pool.

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OK, maybe. Like at a ridiculously high caliber of competition, I might believe you, but this isn't really my area of expertise. My intuition says that this is way wrong tho, reasoning that Chess variance < Pool Variance, and Garry Kasparov has both drawn and lost games during a period when he was undoubtedly the best active player in the world. Furthermore, I have friends that I know are "better" than me like 100% for sure, but I beat every once in a while.

In fact, after some thought, asserting that the higher skilled player wins 100% of the time seems completely off-mark. Assuming that the lesser player is capable of racking the table (which even I've done with limited pool experience over many games), then he will win at least one game in the long run (DUCY?).

So my answer still stands --> Just offer odds based on the seeming skill-discrepancy.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why I loved pool so much, amateurs just don't understand it. In chess you oponnent always get a turn at the chess board. In pool you can lose without ever having an opportunity to win the game yourself, pool is unique in this aspect. This is why your analogy has no merit.

I promise you that if you and I played 8 ball I could beat you 100% of the time until you either went broke or got tired of racking the balls. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Jimbo

[SheetWise]

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I promise you that if you and I played 8 ball I could beat you 100% of the time until you either went broke or got tired of racking the balls.

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If I'm interpreting this correctly (and I think I am), you're saying that in 8 ball, once you have the table, you have the skill to hold it indefinitely.

I've known some world class players, and I don't think any of them would make that statement. Are you really claiming to be that good?

[WhiteKnight]

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I promise you that if you and I played 8 ball I could beat you 100% of the time until you either went broke or got tired of racking the balls.

[/ QUOTE ]If I'm interpreting this correctly (and I think I am), you're saying that in 8 ball, once you have the table, you have the skill to hold it indefinitely. Are you really claiming to be that good?

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But for the fact that I break sometimes, a percentage of which times will result in me racking the table, without you ever having control at any given point. Ergo, I will win at least one game in the long run, which is why I'm arguing my solution to be valid for sufficiently large values of Y.

Sure, you might be way better than me at 8 ball, but you're not that good. Even though I don't understand this game on a very high level, I can state with a fair degree of confidence that you are accrediting to yourself a grossly exaggerated level of skill. If, once you break, you "hold the table indefinitely," then you are the most skilled player in the world, because world class players have as much chance of regaining the initiative as would I.

Definition of douchebag per www.urbandictionary.com:
"An individual who has an over-inflated sense of self worth, compounded by a low level of intellegence, behaving ridiculously in front of colleagues with no sense of how moronic he appears."

Note to come across as one, but I think you might be.

[Jimbo]

I believe you misunderstood. I think I wrote that I could beat you 100% of the time, not everyone on earth. I know this because you compared pool to chess so you must have little inherent skill in pool.

And yes I played pool for a living for over 20 years, I am that much better than you in 8 ball. If you think not I will play you, travel to wherever you wish as long as you play for at least $20,000 and can prove the person you are on this message board is the person I will be playing.

Jimbo

[Thremp]

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I believe you misunderstood. I think I wrote that I could beat you 100% of the time, not everyone on earth. I know this because you compared pool to chess so you must have little inherent skill in pool.

And yes I played pool for a living for over 20 years, I am that much better than you in 8 ball. If you think not I will play you, travel to wherever you wish as long as you play for at least $20,000 and can prove the person you are on this message board is the person I will be playing.

Jimbo

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This would be amazing if SheetWise is a stamina guru and can stay away for 70+ hours and just crushes you.

[SheetWise]

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This would be amazing if SheetWise is a stamina guru and can stay away for 70+ hours and just crushes you.


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I wasn't making any challenge -- just trying to understand if what I read was correct.

I'm too old and my eyes too tired to be playing pool anymore, sorry. But I'm not too old to remember hanging with a group who were quite good. As I recall, every one of them (including me) had a story of being hung out by some hick in two-bit saloon in a one horse town. The ride to the top usually includes a few lessons in humility -- which are best to be remembered.

BTW- I don't think Jimbo or WhiteKnight were responding to me.

[WhiteKnight]

Yeah, this penis waving contest is primarily between Jimbo and I. I'm not going to play you in pool for $20,000 (wtf?). Clearly yours is bigger than mine. The thing about the internet is that it's really easy to (and common for people to) make unsubstantiated claims derived from ego.

What's funny about your $20,000 bet is that the terms aren't even clear. Like, perhaps we play for as long as I want, and as long as I win ONE game, I win the bet? DUCY endurance (and possibly other factors external to pool skill) come into play here? I bet you $20,000 I can stay up later than you. Trust me, you don't want to take me on this. I'm expert and did this for a living for over 20 years.

In short, I'm not going to reply to anything else here because it's a waste of my time. I presented what I perceive to be a viable answer to OP's question. You clearly disagree. Despite your arguing to the contrary, I still feel that my rationale was valid. Funny stuff can happen during this little thing called the long-run. I'm REALLY good at walking, but still take the occasional misstep. I'm going to let thinking people reach their own conclusions on this one.

Actually, I'm not done yet. I'm going to be a nit and poke out what I perceive to be logical mistakes in your posts, simply because I don't want to watch Transformers again and that's what my buddies are doing.

[ QUOTE ]
This is why I loved pool so much, amateurs just don't understand it. In chess you oponnent always get a turn at the chess board. In pool you can lose without ever having an opportunity to win the game yourself, pool is unique in this aspect. This is why your analogy has no merit.

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Yes, in pool you can lose without ever having the opportunity to win. It's called having your opponent rack the table commencing with the break. Sure, you might leave him snookered or otherwise unable to effectively further his initiative, but are you going to be able to build this contingency plan into EVERY single shot that you make? If so, nh sir, you're REALLY good at pool.

The thing is, if you slip up even ONCE, then I get a turn. Sure, some of these will be mitigated by the fact that I'm snookered, but SOMETIMES (read ONE in the LONG-RUN) I will rack the table on you (without you ever having a chance to influence the game again). I've done it before, so I know it's a definite (albeit improbable) possibility.

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I believe you misunderstood. I think I wrote that I could beat you 100% of the time, not everyone on earth. I know this because you compared pool to chess so you must have little inherent skill in pool.

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There is virtually no logical continuity in this post. You assume superiority from the get-go and take this to mean that your word is the final say. I have little inherent skill in pool, but I've got a reasonably high IQ, high enough to note that X - 1 < 100% ; where X equals total games played over the long-run and -1 represents the game I luckbox out by running the table (after either breaking or having you leave me un-snookered).

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I believe you misunderstood. I think I wrote that I could beat you 100% of the time, not everyone on earth.

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Was your original assertion, correct?

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If I'm interpreting this correctly (and I think I am), you're saying that in 8 ball, once you have the table, you have the skill to hold it indefinitely.

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Seriously, Sheetwise was on to something.

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The ride to the top usually includes a few lessons in humility -- which are best to be remembered.

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Maybe even two things. Incidentally, do you win all the time at poker too?

Your friend,

~WhiteKnight the Nit

[WhiteKnight]

I mentioned this thread to my friend and he said that I should take you up on the $20,000 bet that I will NEVER be able to beat you because I will NEVER have to pay you. DUCY? It's because there is ALWAYS another game to play!

So yeah... what time/place? I *heart* freerolls.

[Maize]

It's amazing to me how many people are such incredible
"experts" when it comes to the internet. If Jimbo really
WAS the expert he claims to be; he'd realize what EVERY
SINGLE pool pro on Earth knows: No matter how good you are;
there's always someone better.