Zero Sum Blackjack: Possible? - Page 3

SheetWise · #21 10-21-2007, 11:46 PM

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Have you ever played one of these video BJ games? They are fast..faster than online games.

BTW, I'm not sure where you're playing BJ online, but if your only getting 600 hands an hour either the site's software/cnnection is slow or you are slow a slow player.

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I've played them, because I write code for them. I've written for both Internet and cabinets -- and never made any distinction in the rate of play. Thremp is very close to our observations at his max rate of 600 hands per hour, on a heads up game.

I honestly don't believe that 1,000 is possible -- let alone 1,500. One of the reasons is that all wagers are acknowledged, as well as all winners. There are dwell times on those screens that, while short, are not zero. The player options do not function during those periods. The play is also animated to make it more interesting -- the deal itself takes time. Insurance options have to be responded to, and the dealers hand, upon a win, includes another dwell period. I'm sure they've reprogrammed these machines rather than remove them, and all you have to do is go monitor your own play as fast as you can for about ten minutes to realize how ridiculous a 1,000 to 1,500 hand per hour rate is.

Thremp · #22 10-22-2007, 01:54 AM

Hoqua,

The online numbers are what some professionals I've talked to have experienced. In reality I'm closer to 300-400 for a 8 hour type workday. I need to take 15 minute breaks, I lose focus, etc. I can't imagine live play would be much quicker than online play. Though what you're saying at 2.5x the speed is insanity.

Also, long term play at that speed is going to be riddled with errors. Playing anywhere near max speed increase your error rate dramatically especially when grinding hour after hour.

Also IIRC isn't handle for BJ typically right around 1.1x your base wager due to doubling/splitting etc. If automated, I'd assume this would be the way its calculated, no?

hogua · #23 10-22-2007, 01:00 PM

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Hoqua,

The online numbers are what some professionals I've talked to have experienced. In reality I'm closer to 300-400 for a 8 hour type workday. I need to take 15 minute breaks, I lose focus, etc. I can't imagine live play would be much quicker than online play. Though what you're saying at 2.5x the speed is insanity.

Also, long term play at that speed is going to be riddled with errors. Playing anywhere near max speed increase your error rate dramatically especially when grinding hour after hour.

Also IIRC isn't handle for BJ typically right around 1.1x your base wager due to doubling/splitting etc. If automated, I'd assume this would be the way its calculated, no?

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Ok, so you've never played these machines? So you have no idea how fast they are, correct? You're comparing them to online play, which is like comparing apples and oranges.

Go to Vegas. Find a VBJ game. Set it at run on the fastet mode possible. Once you do that, you'll see just how fast the hands can be played by someone that doesn't need to think about basic strategy. Until you do that, you have no clue about this and, by contining to talk about it, you only highlight your ignorance of the subject.

You're correct about the doubles and splits. The 1500 hands per hour number takes that into account (i.e. 1500 bets per hour), which is a low estimate for rate of play for solid pros on these machines.

Any Vegas pro isn't going to have a problem with errors. Most of these guys have can play error free for hours on end on any of at least 12-15 different versions of VP, almost all of which have much more complicated strategies than BJ, and do so at a rate of 1000-1200 hands per hour.

If they can do that, they can handle BJ basic strategy at a high hands/hour rate in their sleep.

This is how these guys make their living. They play for hours on end. When they aren't playing in a casino, they are at home practicing.

Just because you cant do it doesn't mean that these guys, who train for to be able to do this, can't.

Have you ever talked about multi tabling poker online with someone who even hear that people would do this? If you have, you know the reaction they give if/when you mention that people play 10-12 (hell even 30) tables at a time for hours on end. That reaction is one of disbelief, which is based on ignorance. Because they can't do it, they assume no one else can.

dippydoo · #24 10-22-2007, 03:47 PM

Thremp,

You might want to check out this link before trying to refute hogua's story any further.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/message/79002

It looks like hogua's got his fact right - for once - this time.

SheetWise · #25 10-22-2007, 10:55 PM

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Thremp,

You might want to check out this link before trying to refute hogua's story any further.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/message/79002

It looks like hogua's got his fact right - for once - this time.

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Yahoo links suck. I feel no need to give up my first born to view a link -- copy and post it.

dippydoo · #26 10-23-2007, 12:21 PM

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[ QUOTE ]
Thremp,

You might want to check out this link before trying to refute hogua's story any further.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/message/79002

It looks like hogua's got his fact right - for once - this time.

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Yahoo links suck. I feel no need to give up my first born to view a link -- copy and post it.

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I posted the link, but I'm not going to copy a whole thread in a forum discussion because you don't want to be bothered with a yahoo link.

If you want to read it, then do what needs to be done to view it. Otherwise, either forget the whole subject or admit that hogua was posting accurate information - for a change.

SheetWise · #27 10-23-2007, 08:14 PM

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I posted the link, but I'm not going to copy a whole thread in a forum discussion because you don't want to be bothered with a yahoo link.

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You don't need to copy the thread -- just whatever in the thread you think makes your point.

I made the mistake of looking -- and found nothing. There's about an hour of my life I'd like back. What I found was what past experience taught me, Yahoo sucks.

Install their software, go through endless cycles of verification and alternate email addresses, install yahoo toolbar (required), etc, etc, etc, --- all to learn nothing. And if you're not at your primary computer, or don't use web based mail -- you'll have to create a couple new email accounts to make it work. Yahoo sucks rocks.

Is that really your point? A link to a bunch of Yahoos in a Yahoo group who say they can play 1500 hands an hour and make $300 an hour? We have that here, without the link.