NL Bots on Full Tilt

[MasterLJ]

The thing is, there's only a handful of people that actually design bots... the rest of the bot community try to manipulate rules to make a winning combo (that's how I understand it anyway).

That being said, the main programs out there don't seem to try to mimic human behavior. It would not be hard at all to randomize timing decisions and starting hands.

[JOEL_]

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Two guys sitting together playing on different accounts,one teaching another how to play,confering and making basically the same moves could easily bring the same stats as OP has provided.Is this cheating?Is it against the terms and conditions?I mean I don't know,I am just asking.I am sure this is going on all over the place.

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A human poker player who plays 100K hands in one account, and then 100K hands in another account is not going to have stats which are this close. Even if they intend to follow rigid guidelines for their play there will end up being more discrepancies.

If the player somehow had a really detailed strategy sheet which he followed to the tee, then maybe the stats would be close to identical. But otherwise, two people who have a set strategy will still end up making slightly different decisions more often than the stats of these bots would indicate.

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On his bio he said he and his friend were playing side by side.

[NoahSD]

I haven't read the whole thread.. but seems like it's also pretty reasonably likely that this is just another RainKhan type thing, where the guy is just really fast with a mouse and is now 87-tabling FT with multiple accounts to dodge the table cap.

If that's the case, I don't really care at all, although I guess it's technically against the rules.

[zook]

Going through old HH's with these guys. Here's some pre-flop action that seems really non-standard for a bot.

FullTiltPoker Game #1794368286: Table Cathedral Rock - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:42:49 ET - 2007/02/14
Seat 1: Bluf4fun ($282)
Seat 2: smksho ($30)
Seat 3: GALDOC ($52.95)
Seat 4: tffloors ($928.70)
Seat 5: valley2002 ($94.75)
Seat 6: Peyton88 ($339.55)
Seat 7: mariojr ($203.55)
Seat 8: Tilt88 ($220.90)
Seat 9: Hero ($206.95)
tffloors posts the small blind of $1
valley2002 has 5 seconds left to act
valley2002 is sitting out
valley2002 has timed out
Peyton88 posts the big blind of $2
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [4s As]
mariojr calls $2
Tilt88 folds
Hero calls $2
Bluf4fun calls $2
smksho calls $2
GALDOC has 15 seconds left to act
GALDOC raises to $30
tffloors folds
Peyton88 folds
mariojr calls $28
Hero calls $28
Bluf4fun folds
smksho adds $9.80
smksho folds
*** FLOP *** [7c 7h 8d]
mariojr bets $60
Hero folds
GALDOC calls $22.95, and is all in
mariojr shows [Ah Ac]
GALDOC shows [Ks Kd]
Uncalled bet of $37.05 returned to mariojr
*** TURN *** [7c 7h 8d] [8c]
*** RIVER *** [7c 7h 8d 8c] [Ts]
mariojr shows two pair, Aces and Eights
GALDOC shows two pair, Kings and Eights
mariojr wins the pot ($139.90) with two pair, Aces and Eights
GALDOC is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $142.90 | Rake $3
Board: [7c 7h 8d 8c Ts]
Seat 1: Bluf4fun folded before the Flop
Seat 2: smksho folded before the Flop
Seat 3: GALDOC (button) showed [Ks Kd] and lost with two pair, Kings and Eights
Seat 4: tffloors (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: valley2002 is sitting out
Seat 6: Peyton88 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: mariojr showed [Ah Ac] and won ($139.90) with two pair, Aces and Eights
Seat 8: Tilt88 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: Hero folded on the Flop

[vandyhawk]

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lol, thats awesome. Is there anyway to tell when this was last updated? would be funny as hell if it was like this morning (which I bet it was)

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User since 7/9/2006 11:24:02 AM
<font color="red">Last login 4/15/2007 2:39:26 AM</font>
Real name Charles Kuruzovich

[Rowem]

I just thought of something.

What if it really is three/four different people who are actually playing, however all are using some sort of programming system that defines what the correct action should be. I was railing a couple tables and their insistence that someone had tought them made me think of this.

Basically it would work just like a bot, however the person still has to be there to actually press the buttons and fill in the bet amounts. Would this be considered a 'bot' still, and would it be considered against the rules? My main objection to a bot is that it can play on it's own, however I can't see how you can stop players using a set system if they want. Perhaps, if it is not a particularly advanced piece of programming, then the player might even be having to input the cards into the 'bot' and then wait for the bot to tell them the correct move which would explain the time delays?

Any thoughts on this?

[Alobar]

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lol, thats awesome. Is there anyway to tell when this was last updated? would be funny as hell if it was like this morning (which I bet it was)

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User since 7/9/2006 11:24:02 AM
<font color="red">Last login 4/15/2007 2:39:26 AM</font>
Real name Charles Kuruzovich

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darn!

[KingMedicine]

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my take:

there were some bots which sometimes was played by a human to minimize risk of detection. now botowner knows this and will do some symbolic play to minize risk of account closedown.

probably will do some minor changes and maybe switch sites and everyone is back to normal.

great work finding this. expect to see more of this kind of threads in the future.

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yea, one great thing that has come out of this whole mess is a super lesson in bot detection (ahh, that [censored] ryhmed - blew beaumont's brains out) by the players.

it completely sucks that the players have to be the ones to do the leg work on combatting the bot problem and it sucks even more that the sites (thus far) dont really give a [censored], but what is in the works here is some ground-breaking structure to players' individual bot detection research.

kudos to OP and to all that have contributed substantive posts in this thread.

[antisocialgrace]

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All of those that are trying to make points about why bots are wrong are missing the point.

Full Tilt's lack of responsiveness to the OP and to this thread are the issues here.

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EXACTLY.

[KurtSF]

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I haven't read the whole thread.. but seems like it's also pretty reasonably likely that this is just another RainKhan type thing, where the guy is just really fast with a mouse and is now 87-tabling FT with multiple accounts to dodge the table cap.

If that's the case, I don't really care at all, although I guess it's technically against the rules.

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Timing tell is that he uses a lot of time.

(1) If he's fast with the mouse wouldn't he be quick to fold some hands?
(2) If he's 47 tableing wouldn't he timeout sometimes?

Maybe sometimes its the live player so he is quick, but why do easy decisions take a long time? Why doesn't he ever timeout on one of his 47 tables? I've head no mention of that at all. There's no way he's on 20+ tables waiting for the time to tick down before taking his action and moving on to the next table. No way.