NL Bots on Full Tilt

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Why do you take notes on players if you play the same way no matter who the player is? You're C-betting 97% of the time and you claim that you take notes on players?


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Yeah, bingo.

It would be nice if nlnut told one consistent story instead of a bunch of contradictory half-truths. If you're following a script, why consult about hands? Why take player notes?

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I think this is particularly fishy myself, but I may have a simple explanation.

From nlnut's and brandon's conduct in this thread I think it can safely be assumed that neither of them is very bright. Is it possible that they take notes that read "Floats, raises Cbets, abuses BTN, etc" or simply listing odd hands that others have taken to showdown, but they are too stupid to adjust their strategy?

[KurtSF]

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.......... he posted at his house without my knowledge. I wasn't going to post until Nation posted first, for obvious reasons.

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Did you call him and tell him about the thread? How did he know?

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Why won't you share any bit of the "book", even those things that would help exonerate you but not give away the strategy? ................because thats not possible......any bit of details WILL give away the strategy..

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This is simply not true. You are either being willfully ignorant or outright lieing.


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..anyway anyone with 100k+ hands could spend a few hours and figure it out...so ask them to do it.

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This is exactly our point. One one of many of the people in the thread could come up with a "strategy". Could come up with one that fits on a single piece of paper. And wins at a larger rate than yours. We are not concerned with how your startegy wins.

What is concerning is that without assitance your results are not reproducable. Are you really asking as to believe that a few months ago you sat down with pen and paper, worked out a "strategy", memorized it for a week, threw the paper away, then got 4 people to execute it perfectly over what, the better part of a year and a million hands? Preflop I could buy. But the postflop numbers are neigh impossible under the circumstances you describe.


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......we all fine tune the strategy (not a script) together.

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You must see the inconsistancy here. Either it changes or it doesn't. Either you're all following the "strategy" lockstep, or you're trying things and discussing them and changing it as the group deems fit. The first seems impossible to do merely from memory. The second would result in more divergent stats.

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How are the changes communicated to all the team members? explained above

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Not at all. Clearly the changes (which you said you have made) were instantly communicated with 100% compliance. The only way to do that would be through some sort of ducmentation or electronic means. It makes no sense. It is fishy. Something smells. I don't know how else to put it, but your story doesn't explain the evidence.


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[antisocialgrace]

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The fact that you are now reduced to FLAT OUT LYING in this post. Proves you have, at best, a shaky leg to stand on! Spreading this filth and passing it off as fact is SLANDERING!!! I'm sure you'll rustle up a few more mob members with these lies, but your tactics are NOTHING SHORT of underhanded! Deforming one's character isn't a good way to build clout amongst, what I thought(or been told), was a very intelligant community. You should be ashamed of yourself.

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Eh, you do realize you have been lying from the start right? In fact I am convinced your so-called attempts to defend a friend (and yourself at the same time) has hurt all of you way more than if you would have held that stupid mouth of yours shut.

Seriously, you are scum, regardless if this chuck guy have been using bots or not. You should have shut up so long ago, and I am STUNNED that nation and this chuck-guy decided to actually agree upon telling the forum that you were in fact one of the players, when it could instead just have been dismissed as a troll. That, if anything, was a retarded move. You have DEFINITELY done more damage than good to their cause, that is pretty clear.

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It's the same guy, all three post in the same time periods, much like he plays.

[nlnut]

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The biggest thing, to me, that stands out is how all these people are posting all these reasonable questions that deserve answers and have facts to back them up, yet all of the defenders of the "botter" pick and choose the easiest, and most pointless things to answer.

Even after people quoting themselves, asking multiple times for answer to the REAL questions, "botter" and his party keep choosing the retarded ones that no on actually cares about, or making person attacks.

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QFT

Hey Nation/NLnut/Doug. We are going to talk about this issue on our poker show this Sunday. Would you like to come on to discuss it? I promise it will be a civil discussion.

Things that make me think that something is wrong here:

1. Brandon's actions throughout the thread. <font color="red"> he'll have to respond to that. </font>

2. When asked why each player took so long to make even the simplist of decisions, the answer was that they were discussing amongst each other what to do. Obviously, if they were doing that and making situational folds/calls/bluffs that flies directly in the face of their rigid strategy story <font color="red"> most of the decisions are bet sizing or slow playing monsters. </font>



3. River bet stats. I don't see any way that these could be so close, especially if each tough decision is discussed. <font color="red"> we dont get in too that many tough river bets...wo do play tight ya know </font>

4. That a bunch of guys who put such an effort into their system would have ABSOLUTLEY no interest in improving their play or moving up. <font color="red">never said no interest...weve tweaked in the past and will in the future ...just haven't recently </font>

5. The auto-folding of miniscule raises compared to pot-size. AT LEAST SOME of these should be called if only for meta-game. <font color="red"> i don't remember this particular hand....trebek can we get a HH for this </font>

6. That when the OP signed on each of the three suspected bots AUTOMATICALLY left their games. Why would they do that? If it was a human sweatshop, wouldn't they just say to the other "hey, dude who is pwning us signed in. Don't sit at a table with him. Play in another game" <font color="red"> again the only time we ever left a game was for dinner or when we quit for day..... not sure what else to tell ya other than trebek is exaggerating. </font>

7. That someone who couldn't install an anti-virus program is scripting and setting up computer sweatshops. <font color="red"> see ADDE's post earlier...he explained why </font>

Please, someone address these and the other unanswered questions.

Tuco.

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[antisocialgrace]

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If FT is in fact unwilling to re-open the investigation, or at the very least to provide a FAR greater explanation for their rationale in clearing those accounts, then this will be an unmitigated public relations and customer service DISASTER for them.

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No it won't. You greatly overestimate 2+2's presence in the online poker market.

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It's getting to be time to trot out the dreaded B word ...

BOYCOTT

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2. When asked why each player took so long to make even the simplist of decisions, the answer was that they were discussing amongst each other what to do. Obviously, if they were doing that and making situational folds/calls/bluffs that flies directly in the face of their rigid strategy story <font color="red"> most of the decisions are bet sizing or slow playing monsters. </font>

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Uhhhh you guys don't slowplay. Flop aggression of 11? You guys are either betting or folding. 97% continuation bets doesn't help your claim of slowplaying either.

Edit: I also don't think that you guys could possibly discuss betsizing in any meaningful fashion in the 30 seconds or so you have to act.

[happyhappyhappy]

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4. That a bunch of guys who put such an effort into their system would have ABSOLUTLEY no interest in improving their play or moving up. <font color="red">never said no interest...weve tweaked in the past and will in the future ...just haven't recently </font>


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This is not true, you said on more than one occasion when you first came in this thread that 'we are happy' (with your results/winrate)

quote unquote.

[ClubChamp04]

I also wanted to say how bad Full Tilt's investigation looks. They apparently only asked for utility bills and didn't contact these people ever again until the accounts were unlocked. We are at least getting an idea of what's going on here by Chuck and his crew explaining the situation, but the mind boggling part is how could FTP draw any conclusion other than botting from looking stictly at the data?


It would be impossible for me to say these are legitimate players just by looking at the numbers [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

And what took 3 months to complete this investigation?

[nlnut]

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Why do you take notes on players if you play the same way no matter who the player is? You're C-betting 97% of the time and you claim that you take notes on players?

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="red"> the notes are part of the strategy...pretty much we track something in our notes that pt doesn't that is specific to each player...I can not explain it as it would be releasing part of strategy </font>

[pokerstudAA]

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2. When asked why each player took so long to make even the simplist of decisions, the answer was that they were discussing amongst each other what to do. Obviously, if they were doing that and making situational folds/calls/bluffs that flies directly in the face of their rigid strategy story <font color="red"> most of the decisions are bet sizing or slow playing monsters. </font>

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Uhhhh you guys don't slowplay. Flop aggression of 11? You guys are either betting or folding. 97% continuation bets doesn't help your claim of slowplaying either.

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It is very clear that these players are not adjusting to their opponents and note taking would be not useful in their "strategy." Stats would ultimately be different because of adjusting to different opponents. Some would be slowplayed, some would be C-bet against. When my notes say "limps/calls raises with Ax" I don't C-bet A high flops. When my notes say "calls flop with underpairs" my flop C-bets gets larger. The stats would be different depending on players/situations. The stats here match up almost completely. Things don't add up here.

If C-bets are always the same %percentage% of pot there was no decision making going on here. Can we get some bet sizing information from OP or anyone with a DB?