Heads up unlimited raising on the river

jively · #1 05-22-2006, 10:39 AM

Yesterday I was playing $4/8 at Foxwoods. I raise with AJo on the button, and there were 3 or more callers. Flop comes AQx. It's checked to me and I bet, and I get 2 callers. Turn is a K. Checked to me and I bet, and I get 1 caller.

River is a 10, giving me the nut one-card straight. The board is not paired, and there isn't 3 to a flush on board, so I have the nuts. Checked to me, and I bet. The other player check-raises. I 3-bet. He 4-bets. Someone at my side of the table says "ok, chop the pot already."

I figure it's a chopped pot, so I call. My opponent proudly shows TT, for a set of tens on the river. Now, of course, the guys on my side of the table say I should have kept raising...

What do you think? I definitely should have at least 5-bet.

-Tom

jasonj · #2 05-22-2006, 10:50 AM

You should have continued to raise until you were out of chips. This was a 4/8 game, the 4-bet narrowed his range down to any two cards not in your hand or the board.

I had a similar thing happen to me once with a nut straight in a 3/6 game. The guy kept re-raising his whole $100+ stack and shows down a middle pair. He said afterward he was trying to bluff me out... bluff me out of a 30+ bb pot in a limit game. If only I could trick these guys into playing 10/20 with me.

bav · #3 05-22-2006, 10:55 AM

You shoulda twenty-bet it if your opponent let it go that far. And you shoulda kicked the "chop the pot already" guy in the gnads to silence him--it's harder to table talk when you're wallowing on the ground puking in agony.

mdelcorso · #4 05-22-2006, 11:05 AM

I saw this exact situation happen at the Taj last year in a 5/10 game. AK for broadway against 99 for the ass end. The difference was that it was the DEALER that made the "you guys have the same hand comment" so the AK stoped raising at 5 bets. Dealer deserved 40 lashes for that one... Player deserved 10 for listening to him.

BTW, the 99 guy had never played before. I had spent the last 30 minutes teaching him how to bet in limit. He was donating hundreds to that 5/10 game. How you can stop raising the newbie is beyond me.

Fish R Friends · #5 05-22-2006, 11:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yesterday, I rivered a 10, giving me the nut one-card straight so, I have the nuts. Checked to me, and I bet. The other player check-raises. I 3-bet. He 4-bets.

[/ QUOTE ] 5-bet, 7-bet....

[ QUOTE ]
Someone at my side of the table says "ok, chop the pot already."

[/ QUOTE ] kick him in the nuts and then tell him to keep his mouth shut during a hand.

[ QUOTE ]
I figure it's a chopped pot, so I call.

[/ QUOTE ] kick yourself in the nuts for listening and not playing your own hand.

[ QUOTE ]
What do you think? I definitely should have at least 5-bet.

[/ QUOTE ] yup, keep going. I've been in pots where the other guy just doesn't see it, is dumb, a fish, drunk, or whatever... worst thing that can happen is you take back your bets and re-stack your chips. When the table gripes about wasting time/we knew it was a split, respond with "meh." and take their chips later. Best thing that could happen is the guy keeps re-raising you and you rake in a monster.

So, how far will he go? Probably not very far, but some guys see a huge pot and get greedy. I watched two guys get stubborn and go after it 15-betting, 17-betting before the one guy finally say, "oh, there's a flush on the board.... call." MONSTER POT! SHIIIIP IT!

GotRivered? · #6 05-22-2006, 11:27 AM

I feel like ive made this post a thousand times before

But you ALWAYS, ALWAYS go down to the felt no matter what!
And always let him ask if you want to throw it all in the pot... dont ever offer it yourself or he may notice he's beat.

About the other guy... I second an earlier post Kick him square in the nuts and try and get both when you do it. He is a nit piece of [censored] and he deserves it

bav · #7 05-22-2006, 11:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So, how far will he go? Probably not very far, but some guys see a huge pot and get greedy. I watched two guys get stubborn and go after it 15-betting, 17-betting before the one guy finally say, "oh, there's a flush on the board.... call." MONSTER POT! SHIIIIP IT!

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't play much limit these days. But the best I've ever gotten was like 7 or 8 bets in a 10/20 game when it was my straight flush vs his ace-flush. It was bet, raise, raise, raise, raise, raise, raise... pause to re-examine the board... "oh crap--you have the str8flush, don't you? *SIGH* Just call!"

KenProspero · #8 05-22-2006, 12:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But the best I've ever gotten was like 7 or 8 bets in a 10/20 game when it was my straight flush vs his ace-flush. It was bet, raise, raise, raise, raise, raise, raise... pause to re-examine the board... "oh crap--you have the str8flush, don't you? *SIGH* Just call!"

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, I was on the other side of that just last week. Hit the A flush on the river. Bet, (me)Raise, Bet, (me)Raise, Bet, (me)uh oh, there's a straight flush possibility, I don't have the nuts -- call.

thinking back on the hand, given the aggressiveness of the player, I doubt I'd have stopped at the three bet.

To the OP. If you have the nuts, keep betting until either all your chips or all his chips are in the middle. You can't lose, and may win, but you figured that out by now.

KenProspero · #9 05-22-2006, 12:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The difference was that it was the DEALER that made the "you guys have the same hand comment" so the AK stoped raising at 5 bets. Dealer deserved 40 lashes for that one... Player deserved 10 for listening to him.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this ever happens, is it appropriate to call the floor? I think it's a breach of ettiquite (if not the rules) for a player who is not in the pot to comment about the hand. For the dealer to do so is inexcusable.

Not that the floor could do anything, but this dealer deserves something.

MWers · #10 05-22-2006, 03:48 PM

If you have the stone-cold nuts, never stop raising. I'd much rather piss off the table by making them wait through it than give up the extra bets on the rare occasions that the other guy in the pot doesn't have the nuts.

Some places/dealers are fairly lax with the "you wanna just go all-in?" question in this sort of situation, especially if it looks like that's going to be the conclusion anyway. Sometimes that questions breaks the reraiser-without-the-nuts out of their stupidity though.