"The Game" Book discussion

[Phil153]

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As for "The Game", the whole premise of these books is that women are more like prey/pack animals than thoughtful, aware, independent humans. I think that's pretty much borne out by the success of these techniques. Two of the things I despise about women is their mindless subordination to instilled social norms and overvaluing of their own feelings, and I think "The Game" is a hilarious expose of those facets of female nature.

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I agree that we quite often overvalue our feelings. I'm interested in this theory that women can be thought of as prey/pack animals. Aren't women as complex and varied as men? If you wouldn't mind, please give a couple specific examples of these "instilled social norms" you allude to.

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Have you ever seen a seductionist at work on a tough target? It's like domesticating a wild animal. First you kill their self esteem, and make them feel miserable. When they're sufficiently broken, you slowly draw them in with positive reinforcements (sprinkled with negative ones to keep them guessing and needy), and set frames which establish your dominance and superior will. Women falsely associate these positive experiences with you, and forget that you were the cause of them feeling miserable in the first place. They then gladly spread their legs for someone stronger who makes them feel good. It's classic behavioral training, and the responses are almost innate. Very similar to training creatures like horses and pack animals.

And it's a failsafe technique when done skilfully. No matter how sophisticated or varied, women fall for it. Here's a video of a famous pick up artist at work. This is no substitute for seeing it in real life, but you can see the classic techniques at work. :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZzjE...ed&search=

The social norms thing is hard to explain. I'll think about how to write what I mean.

[diebitter]

There's a looooong history of evolution that also makes women lessprone to sexual activity with strangers. It's stongly beneficial evolutionarily for males to plant their seed in as many breeding females as possible (this isn't actually true, but we'll leave this for now, iy's good enough) - seed and childcare is very cheap/zero cost for such men, and pregnancy is huge cost for females.

In the old days I suspect lone females + their offspring would seldom survive, so you can see there'd be enormous evolutionary pressures for females not to engage in sex with strangers.


All this is tied to the enormous relative time that hu.ans take to actually become independent, and how their helplessness has resulted in prehistoric humans to have to pair-bond. And that's probably a root cause of why humans are extemely sexual creatures (females needed the males to stick around, and sex is a prime reason when it's relatively unavailable elsewhere).

I've rambled a bit here, but I hope someone finds this useful.

[BigPoppa]

Pair bonding is also why humans are one of the few species that has sex when the woman is not ovulating. The promise of sex on a regular basis keeps the guy around long enough to bond with the woman. If women went in "heat" like other mammals and were not at all interested in sex outside of that time frame, then there would likely be very few monogamous human couples. Guys would just chase around after whichever female was in heat.

Interesting side note: There was a study once that showed women who were cheating on their husbands were more likely to do so when ovulating. Their brains may not have known what why, but something deep inside triggered an increase in sexual desire right when it would matter most. So humans likely had estrus at one point, but evolved away from it.

[blackize]

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Drew devil
"Won't necessarily make you happy though, unless banging lots of hotties will make you happy."

this will make any man(who enjoys sex) happy. if they deny it they are lying.

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There are lots of men, like myself, who enjoy sex but don't have sex make them happy. I actually feel kind of empty after having sex with women who I am not at all attracted to beyond the physical level.

[ifoughtpiranhas]

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Drew devil
"Won't necessarily make you happy though, unless banging lots of hotties will make you happy."

this will make any man(who enjoys sex) happy. if they deny it they are lying.

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There are lots of men, like myself, who enjoy sex but don't have sex make them happy. I actually feel kind of empty after having sex with women who I am not at all attracted to beyond the physical level.

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your not doing it right

[katyseagull]

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Have you ever seen a seductionist at work on a tough target? It's like domesticating a wild animal. First you kill their self esteem, and make them feel miserable. When they're sufficiently broken, you slowly draw them in with positive reinforcements (sprinkled with negative ones to keep them guessing and needy), and set frames which establish your dominance and superior will. Women falsely associate these positive experiences with you, and forget that you were the cause of them feeling miserable in the first place. They then gladly spread their legs for someone stronger who makes them feel good. It's classic behavioral training, and the responses are almost innate. Very similar to training creatures like horses and pack animals.



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Ok I watched the clip and I'm pretty disappointed! What the heck is she thinking?

"You're adorable. You suck. I hate you."
"It makes you more playful, less HARSH!" OUCH.

Then she gives the guy a hug? I HATE guys who act like this. The girl is clearly a lonely idiot. Obviously there are plenty of lonely women out there who will fall for this crap but man, that's really disheartening.

I could say the same thing about a weak guy though. A hot, playful chick could do the exact thing on a weak guy. Do not tell me that all women are prey and men would never fall for this stuff. I know a few guys on the forum who fell pretty easily for this kind of stuff. I remember this one guy telling me about his myspace girl who kept throwing him bones after disrespecting him and how he read it as a sign she was really into him.

On a tangent, this kind of behavioral training reminds me a lot of some of the posters on this site, even ones I would consider pretty freaking intelligent who, nevertheless, want so badly to fit into the community that they let other posters insult the hell out of them and as soon as a rude poster tosses them one lame compliment they think they are now friends. They forget all the negative [censored] the poster did to them and only focus on the positive. I can't believe so many male posters fall for this crap but they do. It's like you said, they forget that the person was the cause of them feeling miserable in the first place.

[Phil153]

I probably come across a bit of a misogynist in my posts, I don't mean to. Growing up I had a lot of respect for women as people, but discovering the power I had over them through seduction techniques and emotional manipulation made me question female insight and courage. Guys who are experienced in these techniques can get a woman to pretty much any emotional state they want. I don't do it any more because it makes me feel miserable and I believe it's unethical (and it's way more fun/challenging to genuinely connect), but knowing I can shakes things up a bit. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] And it is disappointing - women should see through these games and do what they want instead of being used.

BTW the girl did more than give him a hug, there are later videos in the series. Suffice to say this was or could have been an f-close. Most of these pickup videos are, and there are plenty with uglier and less charming guys getting their way. While the girl is obviously young, not 100% confident and not particularly bright, I don't think these are sufficient to explain the amazing success of these techniques. It's also much easier to see the insanity of these interactions when you're not caught up in the moment and being swept off your feet by emotional misdirection. Also note that the approaches vary; the really negative stuff is used for hard-to-crack females, especially very attractive females, but approaches based purely on positive programming are used to. It depends on the girl and situation.

I agree that guys can be subject to these same techniques (there's a whole theory of sales based on Neuro Linguistic Programming, and it's somewhat effective), but they're far less susceptible in general. Lapdogs exist in both sexes, but females seem to have a near ubiquitous susceptibility to emotional manipulation. At least young females; I've never tried to pick up anyone 25+. I don't know whether our own Katie would fall prey to a master seductionist, I suspect you'd smell a rat. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Neoblitz727]

lol how is it that no one has discussed the authors role in discouraging the masses from the pick up community. I think all of us (men) can sympathize with the obsession of being the ultimate womanizer, but i enjoyed the authors frank appraisal of his feelings and shortcomings and status throughout the book (albeit a little self-centered). It does cast a harsh light on the goals and choices of society in general today. ANyways discuss ahead

[katyseagull]

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Guys who are experienced in these techniques can get a woman to pretty much any emotional state they want. I don't do it any more because it makes me feel miserable and I believe it's unethical (and it's way more fun/challenging to genuinely connect), but knowing I can shakes things up a bit.

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I do get what you're saying, Phil, and believe me I'm not judging anyone as a misogynist. Trust me, I enjoy this type of discussion and am not as easily offended as you might think. I just think you have a slightly skewed perspective on this [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img].

Anyone can play these games. Most of us don't choose to. It's all about manipulation. I could manipulate certain guys if I really wanted to. I just don't want to. Men and women can zero in on the perfect girl/guy to manipulate and play... like you yourself said, it's just classic behavioral training. But where is the fulfillment or fun? What is the fun in getting a girl to want you, to need you, based on games and manipulation? Yuck.

Being insulting in order to kill someone's self esteem for the purpose of then building it back up is just pathetic. It seems juvenile and mean to me. Like I said, I bet hot chicks could play the same game on guys. I don't think I agree with you that girls over the age of 21 have near ubiquitous susceptibility.



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I don't know whether our own Katie would fall prey to a master seductionist,

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Well I have in the past, when I was a lot younger. Sometimes women actually know what they're getting into, they are just going along because they are intrigued or bored or lonely. It's not always because we're sooo dumb.

Anymore though, I prefer guys who are just really nice and considerate people. Rudeness is a HUGE character flaw to me and an indication that a person is not worth getting to know.

[blackize]

If sex is what makes you happy, I feel very sorry for you.