Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

[Boris]

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I think a better analogy would be a hot chick going inside the private residence of a known sex offender, then claiming she had to kill him before he assaulted her.

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Yea I see what you're saying here and it makes lots of sense. Once those criminals trespassed on the shooter's property, the property became the criminals' property and not the property of the shooter.

[ChicagoTroy]

I don't understand some of you guys at all, except from an emotional "Violence is always bad" perspective. I especially don't get the gun control angle. Shotguns are legal everywhere. I live in one of the most restrictive jurisdictions anywhere and people have them.

The guy called the cops. The cops weren't going to get there in time. If he was watching his neighbor getting raped, voluntarily "entering a potentially life-threatening situation" would have been perfectly justified. Refusing to enter a dangerous situation you are completely prepared to deal with is pussified.

The fact that it was thievery and not rape or murder he was preventing complicates things. If the theives were trying to burn the house down, I'd have intervened. Light his car on fire, I'd have intervened. But if the car was a $200 beater, maybe not, because I would understand the possibility of having my hand forced and people dying over somebody getting away with torching a beater isn't worth it to me. But I could understand somebody else coming to a different conclusion.

With a home invasion, it's a little confusing, but I can certainly understand where someone might come to the decision of stopping the theives.

I also understand his reaction to the 911 operator who (foolishly, IMO) said "You're going to get shot." Someobdy with a shotgun and the drop on the theives is probably not going to get shot. "It's not worth somebody getting killed over, we're almost there" might have played better.

Once he went outside, I have no idea what happened apart from the fact that it appears he told them to stop. Given he called the cops, and gave a verbal warning, and is the guy looking out for his neighbor rather than robbing him, he certainly gets the benefit of the doubt from me. If it turns out they froze and he just murdered them, he should pay the price for that. But jumping to that conclusion makes zero sense to me given the facts. They probably did something stupid and got shot. That's unfortunate, but their own fault. Don't be stupid.

[El Diablo]

CT,

"If he was watching his neighbor getting raped, voluntarily "entering a potentially life-threatening situation" would have been perfectly justified."

Of course, I don't see why you think anyone here would disagree.

"'It's not worth somebody getting killed over, we're almost there' might have played better."

He said that as well:
"Don't go outside"
"They're getting away!"
"That's alright. Property's not worth killing someone over"
"They got a bag of loot!"

[ChicagoTroy]

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CT,

"If he was watching his neighbor getting raped, voluntarily "entering a potentially life-threatening situation" would have been perfectly justified."

Of course, I don't see why you think anyone here would disagree.

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I was responding to the absudity of blaming somebody for entering "a potentially dangerous situation."
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"'It's not worth somebody getting killed over, we're almost there' might have played better."

He said that as well:
"Don't go outside"
"They're getting away!"
"That's alright. Property's not worth killing someone over"
"They got a bag of loot!"

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I know, I just thought appealing to the guy's sense of self-preservation was likely to generate the opposite response.

All,

I don't think some people are considering that "I am going to go and stop them by threatening them with my shotgun" is NOT (edit, sorry) the same thing as "I am going to go outside and kill those guys." He could easily have been just planning to detain them, and was prepared to shoot them if they did something nutty like rushing him.

It's not a matter of "I'm going to kill them to save my neighbor's stereo," so much as "I'm not going to just sit here and let them rob my neighbor."

[gumpzilla]

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All,

I don't think some people are considering that "I am going to go and stop them by threatening them with my shotgun" is NOT (edit, sorry) the same thing as "I am going to go outside and kill those guys." He could easily have been just planning to detain them, and was prepared to shoot them if they did something nutty like rushing him.

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No, they aren't quite the same thing. But isn't detaining people with armed force like that illegal in a lot of states, too? We can debate whether or not it should be, and that might be an interesting subject. I think it's probably not a good idea to make that generally accepted practice because it is a very small step from there to situations like this one.

[Boris]

Diablo - If the guy shot for the sole purpose of not letting the criminals get away then I would not consider him a hero.

[PITTM]

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Diablo - If the guy shot for the sole purpose of not letting the criminals get away then I would not consider him a hero.

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Wait, so what was heroic? The fact that he shot them once he said they came onto his property?

[waarior]

First time listened to just the ABC News report of the incident on Youtube. Was pretty conflicted.

Second time listened to the whole 911 call and came away thoroughly disgusted at the man's actions.

It seemed to me that he was justifying his shooting in advance.
"The laws changed since September 1st.." etc.
"I don't really know these neighbors."
...I Have the right to protect myself"
"A Shotgun is a legal weapon"

Only the man knows what action he planned to take, assuming he had one, when he left the house. But listening to the tape it sure seems like he was bent on shooting the burglars, not just detaining them.

That is the force wasn't a last resort to protect himself but rather a manifestation of his anger at the slowness of the police response/criminals will get away mentality.

Thought the operator did a great job of trying to calm him down and keep him from leaving the house.

[wet work]

WOW. I don't see how this guy shouldn't be locked up. It sounds like he walked outside just long enough to gun them down then come back inside. You can't send the message that this kind of vigilante justice is OK.

[Xaston]

Why not like, shoot em in the feet or something?

Then they can't get away before the cops get there, and you dont gotta worry about murder.