Playing 2/4... breaking even

mikewpu04 · #1 07-17-2007, 10:05 AM

Hello all, great forums here. I've read a lot of great stuff here in the few days I've been browsing.

My question is about my results thus far. I have played about 15 live sessions at 2/4 limit (before that I always played home games). My results seem to level off a lot, and after those 15 sessions, I'm basically a break even player. Is this the very nature of limit? Especially at the lower levels where it is very hard to bluff and chase people away from pots, is this what beginning limit players can expect?

xxGreat1xx · #2 07-17-2007, 10:12 AM

I think you have to play a ton more hands to see whether you are a winning or losing or break even player. As for your questions I think that if you are a winning player you will win less money at limit. Why don't you just go play 1/2 NL and see how you do. I personally hate limit for the fact that it is hard to get someone out of the pot cause they always have insane odds to draw out on.

fuzz66 · #3 07-17-2007, 10:22 AM

15 sessions is much too small a sample. also, at 2-4 the rake is very hard to overcome for small +EV or break even players, or for winning players for that matter.

fuzz66 · #4 07-17-2007, 10:28 AM

mike,how long have you played and what have you studied?

mikewpu04 · #5 07-17-2007, 10:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
mike,how long have you played and what have you studied?

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I have mainly focused on low-limit hold'em in live settings. I have played NLHE in the casino but that was when I was still just nervous being in the live poker table, and my results were sub-par I felt. So I decided to work on my limit game first.

I have played at home for a few years but not a casino until a few months ago.

fuzz66 · #6 07-17-2007, 10:46 AM

1).2 books that are a must study- SMALL STAKES HOLDEM, WINNING BIG WITH EXPERT PLAY and THE THEORY OF POKER. get these books and study them, they will pay for themselves in no time.
2). post hands in the small stakes forum. get feedback, advice from the players there, also a must to improve your game.
3).deposit 50$ into an online poker account and play micros(.01-.02, .05-.10) these games are basically the equevilant of live 2-4 as far as the quality of players.playing micros online will give you a tremendous boost in experience as you will be able to play many more hands.
4).visit this website at least once a day, browse through it, get familiar with it, and study the posts of the more experienced posters here.

good luck and see you in the forums

Harv72b · #7 07-17-2007, 11:52 AM

What is the rake structure in the cardroom you play at? Many B&M 2/4 games are exceedingly difficult to beat simply because of the rake, and if that's the case here then you're doing quite well just to be breaking even. Although yes, 15 live sessions is a ludicrously small sample.

SSH is your limit hold'em Bible, especially for beating the typically loose/terrible opponents you'll encounter in these games. The small stakes limit forum here on 2+2 is also a great resource for improving your game.

aargh57 · #8 07-17-2007, 12:17 PM

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Especially at the lower levels where it is very hard to bluff and chase people away from pots, is this what beginning limit players can expect?

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Bluffing and chasing people away from pots (generally) is not how to make money in low limit hold em. Especially 2/4 B&M. Value betting is the name of the game there. The previous 2 posts have excellent advice.

mce86 · #9 07-17-2007, 01:21 PM

If you are breaking even, your'e beating the game for a little amount, youre just not beating the rake which is hard in low limit games. Youre doing good.

mikewpu04 · #10 07-17-2007, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What is the rake structure in the cardroom you play at? Many B&M 2/4 games are exceedingly difficult to beat simply because of the rake, and if that's the case here then you're doing quite well just to be breaking even. Although yes, 15 live sessions is a ludicrously small sample.

[/ QUOTE ]

I usually play at the standard AC rake of 10% with a max of $4.

Thanks for your replies. Loose is the key word in these games, and it seems like if you have the cards, you win, if you don't, you don't win. Seems basic, but its annoying. Its more about betting the hands you have and how many people try to outdraw you. I had KK once to a flop of Kd8h2c...and I bet (a big $2) and, everyone (8 other players) called. People chased runner-runner of two clubs to outdraw me, and I feel like if I could've plopped down $25, no one would have chased.

The bigger Q is...since theres been so many times I want to steal a pot and can't with the size of the bet, is NL a better bet to learn and stay away from limit? (I've played NL twice and lost like $40).