WSEX: Official Monthly Thread: July. (#11 of 12.)

[gamblerNC1]

I have over 100k hands at WPEX over the last year, but with the new rake format of contributed rake and 25% cut it is no longer worth the time. My rake has lost 50% of its value. While 75% sounds great, when I consider that poker tracker shows me averaging almost 2BB/100 hands when I combine all other sites data. WPEX offers only .5BB/100 hands win rate. This I think is due mostly to the tough tables at WPEX and also to the fact that internet poker has tighten so much over the last few months due to Joe Six-pack not willing to jump through hoops to get money on line.

After tracking my rack back this week I see in order to make the $75 rake each week I would almost have to live on the computer unless I play at least 2/4, and even then it would be a long hard grind. Why you did not offer three tournaments at twenty-five dollars rake each instead of the all or nothing I do not know. It would seem to me that if you are trying to attract the casual and hobby player you would not have set it up to where only 3/6 grinders and above are able to qualify. This sets up a situation where the casual and low limit player are adding to the prize pool, but have very little chance of qualifying.

Not complaining, not whining, and not offering suggestions. Just wanted to tell Fred and WPEX thanks for trying rake free. I would be lying if I said I have enjoyed my time there, but for a while it was profitable, so thanks for that. I have supported it as long as possible and it is time to take my fishing pole to a new hole, hopefully with a few more fish. Good luck to everyone at WPEX. If nothing else I think I am a better player for my time there and I am sure that will pay dividends down the road.

[metsandfinsfan]

WSEX IS RIGGED

in the tourny
ak << aj killed me with a jack on the river??? Rigged

in all seriousness -- thanx for the awesome overlay

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
After tracking my rack back this week I see in order to make the $75 rake each week I would almost have to live on the computer unless I play at least 2/4, and even then it would be a long hard grind.

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the .5/1 plo game is about 10-20 cents per hand when it goes

[gamblerNC1]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After tracking my rack back this week I see in order to make the $75 rake each week I would almost have to live on the computer unless I play at least 2/4, and even then it would be a long hard grind.

[/ QUOTE ]

the .5/1 plo game is about 10-20 cents per hand when it goes

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks but looking for fish not to become one....lol
not my game though it is on my list to learn

[rJ_]

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Contributed rakeback is in the pipeline for August.


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I like the contributed rakeback. Sure lots of people will claim they are leaving, but for most of them I see it as just a threat they will not hold to. If they do hold to it then good for the quality of games. Get rid of the grinders and make the game more enjoyable for the audience you want. The grinders are making way more of this than they need to anyways. Even if they get less from it being contributed, the people getting more are more likely to give it back later anyway. Keep them in the games longer and keep the games more enjoyable for them. Hopefully the switch to 75% wont even be noticed by the loose players come August seeing they will get more back in the form of contributed.

I also applaud you on keeping out the HUD use. You can either run a huge net along the bottom of the ocean to catch all of the fish at once and it all be over...or...use fishing rods and catch them a little a time with a greater chance of having fish for years to come.

Nit HUT grinders need not reply.

rJ_

[PLOlover]

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I also applaud you on keeping out the HUD use.

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actually I was thinking about this and it seems to me everybody can get what they want, juicier and better and more games:

1) stimulate action
a) contributed rakeback
b) blind changes, for example for 3/6 fixed limit holdem make the small blind 2.
c) be the first poker room to offer holdem cash games with antes, should be easy to implement and no real downside I don't think.

2) allow HUD use but make the data much less useful
a) put names back in hand histories, but allow users to change their screennames weekly, perhaps a popup the first time a user logs in per week informing them of the option so everybody knows, with a link to a wpex website page explaining the whole handhistory/datamining issue.

3) inform current player base of deposit options
a) people seem to be woefully uninformed about the easiest deposit option, western union or moneygram. perhaps because online poker players are natural introverts or something make it like pokerstars where you don't have to use the phone, a lot of people won't call wpex customer service to do moneygram. wpex gm go to pokerstars and deposit via moneygram and see how they do it, it is very easy.

4) get more players
a) affiliates
a1) bonuswhores.com -- structure something so you can get listed on sites like bonuswhores.com, talk to them or something, doesn't have to be extra money, maybe just give out a bonus that is deducted from rakeback or something, I think it's a big deal that wpex is not listed on bonuswhores and similiar sites.

5) start games
a) perhaps like UB, the first one or two people at a table would get >75% rakeback, maybe even 100. This would solve the heads up table issues since heads up tables would still be rake free.

6) look into creating a niche player base
a) HU tables (not really given a chance since only rakefree for a short while)
b) holdem with antes could be really big

7) transitioning devices
a) blackjack tournaments so you get some crossplay, and some casino players may go to poker also
b) some kind of sports betting thing for poker players, the easiest thing off the top of my head is to make the Aces Never Lose promo money have to be wagered in the sportsbook before it can be cashed out.

[Piemaster]

I think PLOlover has some great ideas and a lot of them are worth looking into. I think the important ones are:

1. The HUD thing. Right now you are neither one thing or the other. The idea of regular screen name changes would be a very easy change which would solve the issue once and for all.

2. Advertising - Especially the Aces never lose promotion, fish would love that if they knew about it. But is there any reason that the promotion is basically designed to stop European players from taking advantage?

[Shandrax]

The problem with the new 75% rakeback is NOT that people get 25% less and it is not bitterness either!

The problem is that people are disappointed that the 100% rakeback-model got screwed up by incompetent management. Now players have to pay 25% of the rake to keep these guys in business. The best idea in online poker got spoiled by the worst execution possible.

These 25% are an incompetence-fee, nothing more, nothing less.

By the way, I wonder what the 75% rakeback on a rather high rake means in comparison to 27-35% on a medium rake. It's certainly not the difference in hard numbers that the WPEX GM likes to advertise.

[metsandfinsfan]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with the new 75% rakeback is NOT that people get 25% less and it is not bitterness either!

The problem is that people are disappointed that the 100% rakeback-model got screwed up by incompetent management. Now players have to pay 25% of the rake to keep these guys in business. The best idea in online poker got spoiled by the worst execution possible.

These 25% are an incompetence-fee, nothing more, nothing less.

By the way, I wonder what the 75% rakeback on a rather high rake means in comparison to 27-35% on a medium rake. It's certainly not the difference in hard numbers that the WPEX GM likes to advertise.

[/ QUOTE ]

what poker site do you work for?

[WSEX GM]

It wouldn't matter if we had 10,000 people a night. Unless the cross-over percentages went up and/or the money transfer costs went back down, it made no sense to continue with no rake. A loss leader is one thing, but it wasn't working and it was getting very expensive.

75% is still the highest unrestricted rakeback in the industry. If our rake structure is vastly different from the competition, we will adjust accordingly.

All comments and complaints are being passed on even if I don't respond to every one.

Fred