Folding KK Pre-flop

[iponnet]

I think if you go all in pf with KKs everytime than you have a leak. you must be able to fold KKs sometimes, I myself look at AF and the PFR stats to see if I am gona fold it to a big 4bet, and AF is more important IMO

[Chargers In 07]

[ QUOTE ]
How many buy ins have you won with KK vs QQ, JJ, TT and AK , AQ...thats the tradeoff.

[/ QUOTE ]For some reason I think this is very wrong. Some players will be bad enough to show up w/AK/JJ but others will not go broke w/o at least KK+. Just need a read to fold.

[Albert Moulton]

In one of Phil Gordon's books he says something like "The 4th raise is always aces." I think he's right.

So, if you are deep enought to raise, get reraised, you raise again, and villain pushes, then you can fold KK if villain is a reasonably good player.

100bb effective stacks, however, aren't really deep enough to get away unless you have a good read on a particular player. With a read, you can fold KK quite easily. But you need a lot of history with the player to make the fold a good play. And it needs to be the kind of player who won't pick up on your ability to fold KK to his AA only to have him start doing the same thing with AK on occasion. There are plenty of uber-nits, however, that would ONLY ever push preflop with AA and vs them you can fold KK even in a 100bb game.

[PLAYOFFS]

I can fold it preflop no problem. It is very situation and player dependent. Oftentimes it is difficult because by the time you figure out he has AA then you only have about 20bb left in which case you won't fold it. But I think that it is possible in situations to fold KK preflop and make it +EV. Of course, there are many who disagree with this.

I'd never fold KK in a tournament.

[WantToLearn]

[ QUOTE ]
100bb effective stacks, however, aren't really deep enough to get away unless you have a very good read on a particular player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I only read the first page and the last and nothing in between, and my first impression is there´s way too many answers not mentioning stack sizes.