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#41
09-17-2007, 12:09 PM
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Re: Tricky turn play in 3bet pot
[ QUOTE ]
also, i think in an aggressive shorthanded game you are overestimating "domination" a little. If we flop top pair after 3betting this guy, it figures to be good, plain and simple. [/ QUOTE ] This guy is a nit. [ QUOTE ] rr pre with KJo, flop Jxx, we are doing pretty good vs a preflop calling range of pairs, mid suited connectors and AKAQ, flop Kxx, we are doing pretty good vs the same range. [/ QUOTE ] We're doing pretty well against his range (not excellent), but we're pretty screwed vs the range were getting action from vs this guy. [ QUOTE ] Ranges are simply too wide in this spot for domination to be an enormous concern. [/ QUOTE ] C'mon, when this nit is calling a 3-bet domination should be a huge concern. I don't think we'll have a very wide range and I don't think villain will put us on a wide range giving action on a Kxx-board with for example JJ. 
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#42
09-17-2007, 12:09 PM
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Re: Tricky turn play in 3bet pot
[ QUOTE ]
This seems pretty basic to me, am I missing something? [/ QUOTE ] um, the fact that 98s flops a good hand like 10-15% of the time, whereas KJo flops one like 35%? yeah, its great to flop 99x with 98s, but this happens next to never.
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#45
09-17-2007, 12:17 PM
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Re: Tricky turn play in 3bet pot
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This seems pretty basic to me, am I missing something? [/ QUOTE ] um, the fact that 98s flops a good hand like 10-15% of the time, whereas KJo flops one like 35%? yeah, its great to flop 99x with 98s, but this happens next to never. [/ QUOTE ] You know you can flop strong draw too, no? And made flushes and straights.
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#46
09-17-2007, 12:46 PM
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Re: Tricky turn play in 3bet pot
check/fold and it sucks to do so. But cannot be 3 betting this preflop and getting into this kind of spot
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#47
09-17-2007, 01:35 PM
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Re: Tricky turn play in 3bet pot
1) Janis is 5 for 5 in this thread, listen to him
2) 17/12 is nitty 3) Preflop is really bad 4) God "Janis" please change your avatar sometimes I browse the forums in class!
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#48
09-17-2007, 03:19 PM
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Re: Tricky turn play in 3bet pot
c/f turn, and dont 3bet this oop into a nit plz.
if he checks behind turn, some rivers i'd shove for value (K,J,2,3,5,6), and some i'd continue to c/f (4,7,8,9,T). I might c/c some, like A,Q
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#49
09-17-2007, 03:36 PM
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Re: Tricky turn play in 3bet pot
dj - if you cf the turn, did you think you were value betting the flop?
it seems to me that vs this nit, preflop is a bluff. I really don't see a nit peeling the flop with TT, thus the flop bet is a bluff (or maybe a 'merge', or protection bet vs AK). Flop doesn't especially seem like a good place to make him fold QQ+ (everyone peels at least one here) so you follow up on the turn where its pretty reasonable for you to shove JJ/AA. or otoh if he's calling wide as one or two people supposed, then flop seems even more of a check because it widens his range flop put-more-money-in range (via him betting with 22 or something), which is good because it recoups losses vs QQ+ when we felt
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#50
09-17-2007, 04:58 PM
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Re: Tricky turn play in 3bet pot
Seems like everybody hates preflop, which honestly is what I expected. What are you guys 3 betting him with then? I mean, I don't think there is much of a difference between 3 betting KJ and AQ/AJ in this scenario, but I could be wrong. I don't think he calls preflop with AJ to a 3bet that often, I haven't 3 bet him at all and not 3betting in general at this table. All my aggression has been postflop for the most part.
Having a range of AK/TT+ to 3bet is a little weak IMO, given I expect him to fold a lot of hands to a reraise given his nittyness as well as calling with hands he overvalues like pairs and some suited connectors which he won't be able to play profitably in all likelihood against me.
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