PHDs - tell me about your experience

[2Fast]

Been working for ten years plus and thinking of a career change. I work in finance and since every friggin market is blowing up these days I might be out of a job in 6 months, so one of my backup plans (and longer-term desires) is to go into teaching, either by geting a PHD or (another) Masters - preferably in strategic management or finance, but I'm kinda open. I've also been thinking about the teaching English abroad route but frankly think it might get pretty old/boring after awhile and I will want something more in the end, so that's why Phd came to mind.

In particular I would like to hear thoughts on:

-how long did it take?
-overall workload
-money situation (stipends, total expenses, etc.)
-additional hours grading papers/doing TA stuff
-job situation (inverted pyramid hierarchical structures at Universities, chances of jobs)
-room & board
-healthcare coverage
-colleagues - how are they?
-time off (2 months in summer right? how great is this really?)

In particular I think I'd like to study abroad, preferably Europe or maybe even South America so wondering if anyone has any experience there.

Thanks!

[diebitter]

I might be wrong, but I think a British PhD is different from an American one. My PhD is British, and is for research only, not study (though there's a ton of studying, ldo).

I don't think a lot of your questions apply, so I'll give you an overall. You have to work really, really hard and you have to be the most determined you've ever been. I mean work is what you live for, and you have to get through a ton of it. And it just goes on and on, the more papers you read, the more papers you find you haven't read yet, and it seems to grow forever.

Sisyphus is your role model here.


It's a very rewarding experience to do research that no one else has done, though.

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
Been working for ten years plus and thinking of a career change. I work in finance and since every friggin market is blowing up these days I might be out of a job in 6 months, so one of my backup plans (and longer-term desires) is to go into teaching, either by geting a PHD or (another) Masters - preferably in strategic management or finance, but I'm kinda open. I've also been thinking about the teaching English abroad route but frankly think it might get pretty old/boring after awhile and I will want something more in the end, so that's why Phd came to mind.

In particular I would like to hear thoughts on:

-how long did it take?
-overall workload
-money situation (stipends, total expenses, etc.)
-additional hours grading papers/doing TA stuff
-job situation (inverted pyramid hierarchical structures at Universities, chances of jobs)
-room & board
-healthcare coverage
-colleagues - how are they?
-time off (2 months in summer right? how great is this really?)

In particular I think I'd like to study abroad, preferably Europe or maybe even South America so wondering if anyone has any experience there.

Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

I quit my job after 8 years to finish a PhD after getting a Masters. I really really miss working, I think the working life is much better than the student life. Although I think my old workplace was kind of special, if you don't love your workplace, student life is nice because you make your own workplace. The reason why I did left is because I love basic research problems, and the only way I will be totally free to work on problems of my own choosing is to have a PhD.

It seems like you are NOT talking about an MBA, which is way different because you pay your own way and in that way an MBA more like law school.

On your individual questions:

[ QUOTE ]

-how long did it take?

[/ QUOTE ]

5 years is typical.
[ QUOTE ]

-overall workload


[/ QUOTE ]
You pick your own hours, but the hours never cease. You work a lot of nights and weekends. I'd say in the end it's roughly the same as having a job, but it feels like you are working harder.

[ QUOTE ]

-money situation (stipends, total expenses, etc.)


[/ QUOTE ]
I am $25/hr for 20 hours, and I think that's typical. Expenses are practically zilch besides rent. If you want to maintain your old lifestyle you'd need a side job, which would suck. I personally play poker to retain my old lifestyle, but that also kind of sucks because poker is mentally draining and I have to save my brain for school. So I need to limit my poker hours.
[ QUOTE ]

-additional hours grading papers/doing TA stuff


[/ QUOTE ]
This is part of your stipend. It's part of the 20 hours. Most semesters people just do a Research Assistantship, which plain blends into being a grad student, I get paid to do the work I need to do anyway to graduate. It depends on your advisor's financial situation (so consider that when you are applying!). Advisors who don't have a lot of money will need you to TA more.

[ QUOTE ]

-job situation (inverted pyramid hierarchical structures at Universities, chances of jobs)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully I covered this. One thing is you get used to a certain level of respect at work. When you become a grad student people treat you like you are 20 years old again.

[ QUOTE ]

-room & board

[/ QUOTE ]
I rent an apartment, I think that's what most do.
[ QUOTE ]

-healthcare coverage


[/ QUOTE ]

Check with the university, but a large university should give you medical, dental, eyecare.
[ QUOTE ]

-colleagues - how are they?

[/ QUOTE ]
Quiet. But very nice people.
[ QUOTE ]

-time off (2 months in summer right? how great is this really?)


[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, no time off. I mean, you could always just tell your advisor that you are traveling and they'll let you. International students do this especially. Working hours are MUCH more informal. But unless you say otherwise they'll want to pay you, and you'll feel guilty about taking too much time off.

Another way to put it: You can take all the time off you want, but you'll graduate that much later.

[JackCase]

[ QUOTE ]

-how long did it take?

[/ QUOTE ]

The time required to complete a PhD is inversely related to the market demand for a PhD in that field.


[ QUOTE ]
-job situation (inverted pyramid hierarchical structures at Universities, chances of jobs)

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep in mind that people rarely if ever get teaching jobs at schools with academic rankings equal to the school where they got their degree. Unless your academic career (and particularly your research and dissertation) was exceptional, you will be teaching down the food chain from where you went to school.

[2Fast]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Been working for ten years plus and thinking of a career change. I work in finance and since every friggin market is blowing up these days I might be out of a job in 6 months, so one of my backup plans (and longer-term desires) is to go into teaching, either by geting a PHD or (another) Masters - preferably in strategic management or finance, but I'm kinda open. I've also been thinking about the teaching English abroad route but frankly think it might get pretty old/boring after awhile and I will want something more in the end, so that's why Phd came to mind.

In particular I would like to hear thoughts on:

-how long did it take?
-overall workload
-money situation (stipends, total expenses, etc.)
-additional hours grading papers/doing TA stuff
-job situation (inverted pyramid hierarchical structures at Universities, chances of jobs)
-room & board
-healthcare coverage
-colleagues - how are they?
-time off (2 months in summer right? how great is this really?)

In particular I think I'd like to study abroad, preferably Europe or maybe even South America so wondering if anyone has any experience there.

Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

I quit my job after 8 years to finish a PhD after getting a Masters. I really really miss working, I think the working life is much better than the student life. Although I think my old workplace was kind of special, if you don't love your workplace, student life is nice because you make your own workplace. The reason why I did left is because I love basic research problems, and the only way I will be totally free to work on problems of my own choosing is to have a PhD.

It seems like you are NOT talking about an MBA, which is way different because you pay your own way and in that way an MBA more like law school.

On your individual questions:

[ QUOTE ]

-how long did it take?

[/ QUOTE ]

5 years is typical.
[ QUOTE ]

-overall workload


[/ QUOTE ]
You pick your own hours, but the hours never cease. You work a lot of nights and weekends. I'd say in the end it's roughly the same as having a job, but it feels like you are working harder.

[ QUOTE ]

-money situation (stipends, total expenses, etc.)


[/ QUOTE ]
I am $25/hr for 20 hours, and I think that's typical. Expenses are practically zilch besides rent. If you want to maintain your old lifestyle you'd need a side job, which would suck. I personally play poker to retain my old lifestyle, but that also kind of sucks because poker is mentally draining and I have to save my brain for school. So I need to limit my poker hours.
[ QUOTE ]

-additional hours grading papers/doing TA stuff


[/ QUOTE ]
This is part of your stipend. It's part of the 20 hours. Most semesters people just do a Research Assistantship, which plain blends into being a grad student, I get paid to do the work I need to do anyway to graduate. It depends on your advisor's financial situation (so consider that when you are applying!). Advisors who don't have a lot of money will need you to TA more.

[ QUOTE ]

-job situation (inverted pyramid hierarchical structures at Universities, chances of jobs)

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully I covered this. One thing is you get used to a certain level of respect at work. When you become a grad student people treat you like you are 20 years old again.

[ QUOTE ]

-room & board

[/ QUOTE ]
I rent an apartment, I think that's what most do.
[ QUOTE ]

-healthcare coverage


[/ QUOTE ]

Check with the university, but a large university should give you medical, dental, eyecare.
[ QUOTE ]

-colleagues - how are they?

[/ QUOTE ]
Quiet. But very nice people.
[ QUOTE ]

-time off (2 months in summer right? how great is this really?)


[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, no time off. I mean, you could always just tell your advisor that you are traveling and they'll let you. International students do this especially. Working hours are MUCH more informal. But unless you say otherwise they'll want to pay you, and you'll feel guilty about taking too much time off.

Another way to put it: You can take all the time off you want, but you'll graduate that much later.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. Very interesting. I think that I still have this (mistaken) idea that somehow going into academia or just back to school will be a cakewalk replete with 2 1/2 months off during the summer, Christmas/winter break etc. And that the slow pace will let me kind of do what I want. It seems that the reality is that it's certainly a ton of work and that you get dumped on like a junior grunt would in any other field. Not so sure I want to go through another grind like the past 10 years have been so I will tread carefully. Still I'm sure it's like anything else and you reap the rewards after you do the work.

Was any of your job-specific work applicable to your PHD (i.e. were you a bit ahead of the curve bc you'd worked for so long and put into practice many of the theoretical things?)

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]


Thanks. Very interesting. I think that I still have this (mistaken) idea that somehow going into academia or just back to school will be a cakewalk replete with 2 1/2 months off during the summer, Christmas/winter break etc. And that the slow pace will let me kind of do what I want. It seems that the reality is that it's certainly a ton of work and that you get dumped on like a junior grunt would in any other field. Not so sure I want to go through another grind like the past 10 years have been so I will tread carefully. Still I'm sure it's like anything else and you reap the rewards after you do the work.

Was any of your job-specific work applicable to your PHD (i.e. were you a bit ahead of the curve bc you'd worked for so long and put into practice many of the theoretical things?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely not a cake walk. And definitely not a slow pace. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] If you go into academia it definitely has to be something you really want, because there will be a lot of times where you feel like quitting.

As for job specific experience being applicable, most definitely! There's the general benefits and there's the stuff specific to my field. The general may be more relevant to you.

(1) 22-year-old kids just don't work hard. Even in study groups they goof off, waste time, and don't focus. I did this too when I was 22, and I never realized I had changed until witnessing other grad students. If you are older, you will have much better study habits, and use your time more effectively.
(2) I've had 8 years to work on my weaknesses. They will never be my strongpoints, but at least they don't kill me. (specifically, for me, I used to be very unorganized, and too hesitant to ask someone a question if I thought it would make me look dumb).
(3) My presentation skills are 99x better. Specifically, as opposed to when I was 22, I am cognizant of the fact that if you put a ton of work into something and present it poorly, no one cares.

As for specific work experience, about half of my work involved writing computer code. And I am in a Computer Science program. So naturally, I can bang out code now much quicker than ever, and it's better code as well. I can also jump onto any Operating System and just start working, as opposed to having to figure it out. For you, I assume you have experience in various software packages that you will use in school.

[John Cole]

One thing you should do is check The Chronicle of Higher Education for positions currently advertised in the field you are considering. Of course, the job market can change significantly by the time you're done.

During the summer I've been on a couple interview committees (I'm an associate professor of English at the Community College of Rhode Island), and we've interviewed many Ph.D's looking for jobs. I feel bad for many of them who can only find adjunct work despite their qualifications.

However, the benefits are many if you can find a tenure track position. You can work thirty weeks a year if you choose not to teach summer classes. My summer begins in the first week of May and ends after Labor Day. (I also don't need to worry about publishing, so I really do have the summer off.)

If you decide to pursue the doctorate in order to teach, make sure you go to the right school. Find out how many of their grads who seek teaching positions get them.

[katyseagull]

John Cole, how come you aren't pressured to publish? Are professors in Arts and humanities ever required to do research of any sort and if so who would fund them? I know that a lot of professors in the science and math fields are pressured to publish and some of them even feel a little put out when asked to teach classes.

[John Cole]

Katy,

Things are very different at community colleges although some do insist upon publication. For performance bonuses and promotion, teaching is the primary consideration. I do, however, serve on college and department committees. I try to keep up with the field through reading journals and attending conferences, but I needn't publish for promotion or tenure. In fact, in all my years of teaching, I have never once been observed. Further, I need not, as it stands now, submit to student evaluations. (Besides, my students all love me anyway. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

Some of my colleagues, though, basically show up, teach their classes, and go home.

If I want to publish and research, I can apply for sabbatical leave, which is for one semester, and I am paid my full salary during this time. We also get some funding for conference attendance even if we are not presenting at the conference.

By the way, some of the lower tier four year institutions do not require publishing and research for tenure.

[katyseagull]

Thanks for the reply John. Sounds like you are busy and having fun with your job. Have you ever taken a sabbatical? If not, where would you like to go?