Am I in the wrong here?

[dwatts1350]

Edit: If this is the wrong forum, please move and I apologize.

I posted this on P5 and got a few responses disagreeing with me but I feel, maybe because of timing, that I was done wrong. I also goofed with a few details but they were pretty insignificant.

21 left in the 750k sat on FT, blinds are 200/400 with 50 ante. I'm in 21st with 550. My own fault but whatever. The guy in 20th is in the BB with 650. The chip leader who was pushing every hand in the SB gives him a walk and says he did it "to help the little guy out." Had he not said that, I wouldn't have reported it but because he did, I think its totally unfair. Needless to say, I finish 21st, hence my gripe. Now who knows what would have happened had he not given the walk. Maybe things play out differently, maybe not. I asked them to consider giving me the seat and taking it away from the player who was chip leader and gave the walk.

Am I wrong or do I have a beef? I possibly lost a seat because he helped the guy out in his own words? Isn't that wrong?

[icemanjmw]

[ QUOTE ]
Edit: If this is the wrong forum, please move and I apologize.

I posted this on P5 and got a few responses disagreeing with me but I feel, maybe because of timing, that I was done wrong. I also goofed with a few details but they were pretty insignificant.

21 left in the 750k sat on FT, blinds are 200/400 with 50 ante. I'm in 21st with 550. My own fault but whatever. The guy in 20th is in the BB with 650. The chip leader who was pushing every hand in the SB gives him a walk and says he did it "to help the little guy out." Had he not said that, I wouldn't have reported it but because he did, I think its totally unfair. Needless to say, I finish 21st, hence my gripe. Now who knows what would have happened had he not given the walk. Maybe things play out differently, maybe not. I asked them to consider giving me the seat and taking it away from the player who was chip leader and gave the walk.

Am I wrong or do I have a beef? I possibly lost a seat because he helped the guy out in his own words? Isn't that wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tough situation, I don't play a lot of MTT Sats online so I don't feel really qualified to answer, but I'll try. I guess if they investigate and see they know each other it's collusion, otherwise it's just someone saying something dumb without thinking.

[JammyDodga]

How many people at your table, and did the BB have 650 after posting the blind or before?

[Butcho22]

I wouldn't be happy about it if I was you, but no way is this alone enough to award you a seat and take the other guys away.

[dwatts1350]

He had ~650 before the BB was posted. He would have been all in involuntarily in 2 hands (I'm almost positive he had less than 700, but if not, it was 3 hands) and I had 3 hands before I was all in involuntarily. It was very close and its possible we both would have been in on the same hand. The chip leader/sb was open shoving and reraising multiple hands leading up to this, for whatever reason because he firmly had his seat locked up. He in no way was forced to make the call. The reason I feel I was cheated was because in his owns words he said he didn't put him all in because he did it to help him out. How is that different from chip dumping?

[wizard]

Yes you have a valid complaint. Remember though, the possibility that the fold was inadvertant exiasts as does the chance that the sb had a hand like 2-3o and the fold may have been correct. The comment may have just been unthinking and intended to be in humor.

In any case, you are not entitled to the seat because this happened. Has the site reported back to you on your complaint?

[4CardStraight]

It sucks, but I dont think you have a legit gripe. You certainly can't compel anyone to play for any reason. Just because its blatantly obvious that you shouldnt fold AA for instance at a cash game, doesnt mean we should compel them to bet. Is it wrong that the big stack can basically decide who gets seats and who doesnt? Maybe from an ethical moral standpoint, but certainly not from a game perspective. If I am the big stack and the whole table is short, and one more person busts, I can decide to select that person based on how they smell. Its my right as the big stack. I am under no obligation to treat all the small stacks alike. I am under no obligation to fold my hands, nor am I under any obligation to auto raise my hands. Its my decision, end of story. He should have said he did it because "he felt like it". Its not much different than when shorty pushes UTG with one seat left. Everyone should call and then check down, from a game theory stand point, but thats not what usually happens. Usually the early positions fold thinking the late positions will take care of the problem, someone in late position has their head firmly up their rear and raises, the blinds call to bust shorty, and then check down, but asshat decides to bet each street.

It sucks but we surely cant compel them to play a certain way. Its their chips, and they get to play them how they see fit. It sucks that sometimes theres a player that gets to "decide" how the results sort out, but even that is only an illusion. Next time, when your all in for your last chips, win the hand.

4Card

[dwatts1350]

I heard back from FTP Doug quickly and he forwarded it to their collusion team, who I had originally sent an email to.

I'm not sure you understand why I'm so upset. He most certainly does have the right to fold the hand. Big stack or not, he's not obligated to play any hand at any time, as long as its in fairness of the game. He jeopardized the fairness of it by helping another player out by his own words. You cannot do that. Its against the rules. If he would have said I had 2-3 and didn't want to double him up, thats perfectly legit and I have no problem with that. Had he just folded and not said anything, I have no room to complain. But he did it with the intention of helping the guy get more chips so he would stay alive in the satellite. That is no different than chip dumping.

[cabbagehead7]

methinks you are taking this game a bit too seriously. You cannot control the actions of thousands of people in a donkament.