Lets play in the dark and discuss hand ranges

[HoldEmNewby]

<font color="blue">Villain1 runs at 17/14/2
Villain2 runs at 49/27/3
Q1) What hand range do you put Villain2 on?
Q2) What is Villain1's hand range after he calls the turn and checks the river?
Q3) What is Villain1's calling range on this river if he is aware of Villain2's playing style?
Q4)What is Villain1's calling range on this river if he has no reads on Villain2?</font>
Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players -

SB: $49.25
BB: $54.33
UTG: $42.80
Villain1 (CO): $59.72
Villain2 (BTN): $49.81

Preflop: (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Villain1 raises to $2.00</font>, Villain2 calls $2.00, 2 folds

Flop: ($4.75) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Villain1 bets $4.00</font>, Villain2 calls $4.00

Turn: ($12.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Villain1 checks, <font color="red">Villain2 bets $11.00</font>, Villain1 calls $11.00.

River: ($34.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Villain1 checks, <font color="red">Villain2 pushes all-in $32.81</font>, Villain1....

[Ramana]

1. after the pf call he has almost atc
2. AxAx AxKx KxJd KxJx QJ(with d) JdJx JdTx (I think V1 will bet most Pair+NFD or naked NFD hands, he will also bet 2p+ hands on the turn. He has a draw very often. He checks AA AK without a d rarely.)
3. 2p+, sometimes maybe a crying call with AK or AA
4. top 2p+,

V1 will fold very very often to the river shove. His draw didn't hit and he would have bet 2p on the turn. I don't see him getting to the river with AA AK 2p after a turn c/c.

I don't care if this is off, because V1 has my stats and thats the ranges for me when I take this line.

[restless]

oh man these are really hard but i'll play with ya...

Q1) at what spot? the river?
actually i think he could have any 2 facecards here. it is really hard to give some combos more weight than others. at least 10% air (naked Ad or a naked J or whatever) though, maybe even more.

Q2) When he turns passive and c/c's the turn i suspect that he's doing it for pot-control and possibly so he won't get blown off a draw. so its a K or a Q and pretty often also a decent diamond. i really don't mind checking here with Ad.
KQ should probably commit against this guy and bet out.

Q3) well, i don't think the AF alone can help us out here, also V1's holecards might also be helpful when putting V2 on a hand. having or not having Ad could actually change what V1 should put V2 on, if that makes sense.
V2's tendency to bluff is something that you cant really get from the AF, so its more of a feeling you get at the table. i think however that folding AK always or calling AK always is a mistake. that's probably where i draw the breakeven line. (his high PFR makes me think that he is pretty careless and spewy, so that might even be too tight)

Q4) readless i think i draw the line somewhere around KQ. i'd be less likely to get to the river in this fashion though with such a hand against an unknown.

puh, that was hard, and proably pretty [censored] up.
now you do the same ok?

[.xxxx.]

1) Villain2's pf call: diamond 2-gappers+, Ax diamonds, KT+
2) Villain1's range after calling turn, check river: A9+ diamonds, AK+, JT atleast one diamond, 22/KK/QQ, KQo/s
3) Villain1's calling range vs 2's style: the A9+ diamond nuts(obv), KQo/s, sets
4) Calling range with no reads: same

[Vedocorban]

Q1) Villain 2 probably has a flush 55% of the time, a straight 15% of the time, two pair 20% of the time, and some random bluff 10% of the time. (Pulled those numbers out of a hat but they seem okay)

Q2) AdKx, AdQx, AdAx, AJ, KK, QQ, TT, 22, KQ

Q3) Probably just AJ, sets and maybe KQ

Q4) Probably the same range as above but maybe not KQ

[HoldEmNewby]

1)
Hands that are very likely
(nut hands, strong hands, or bluffs comprised of hands that would call the flop)
A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Qx,A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Jx,A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Tx- hands that would call the flop, bet the turn and bluff the river
JT-flops a draw, turns a draw plus pair, sees his T is no good and push bluffs
- QJ: calls flop, bets straight draw on turn, and bluffs river
X[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Y[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] - a made flush is very likely (with the exception of AQ)
- TT: turns a straight, a hand that i could see him talking himself into calling the flop, and pushing the river for value
- JJ: turns a draw, talks himself into calling the flop and bets his draw, bluffs the river

*Hands that are possible
- PURE BLUFF, floating on this flop is unlikely
- under pairs with no showdown value, floating on flop is unlikely
- KT,QT:I think these hands don't get bet as hard i'd expect to see smaller bets on turn and river, value bets
- A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] I expect a raise on the flop from this hand

*Hands I discount (marginal hands with showdown value, i'm not giving villain credit for merging his range)
K9,KJ - are looking for a showdown and would have been weary of turn trap
KQ,22,QQ-i'd expect a reraise on the flop
KK-i'd expect a reraise on the flop or preflop
AA- I think he would look for showdown with this hand after the turn bet is called
AK- just wants to show it down
2)
AK-strong enough to talk himself into calling a possible turn bluff
nut flush - slowing down and letting villain bluff seems about right
QQ (with a diamond in it)-we're not so scared of the 4th diamond and don't mind slowing down
A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q: he could have ignored odds and bothered to draw

I discount QT,KT,KQ,KK,QQ,TT(without a diamond in it),22 because I think these hands don't slow down on the turn and try to keep the lead for fear of the fourth diamond or being bluffed off their hand. I discount AJ as well as I expect to see a c/r all-in from this hand on the turn, people get nervous of that 4th flush card or the board pairing with a straight and I don't think this Villain would trap on two streets. I think none nut flushes get the money in on the turn. I think our tag is good enough to fold his AA on the turn so I discount this as well unless of course he was holding the A of diamonds.
3)QQ,KK,22,TT,KQ,KT,QT,AJ,AA a flush
4)pretty much the same range with the exception of AA, I think he'd fold AA,AK to an unknown I still think he calls with KT,QT,KQ