Two Plus Two Newer Archives Basic Theory - Raising preflop
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#51
09-29-2006, 01:39 PM
 sudic Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 62
Re: Basic Theory - Raising preflop

Hey King,

What do you do when villian doesn't let you see flop cheaply?

After you limp, they 3 or 4xbb + 1 ea. limper.

How do we handle that?
#52
09-29-2006, 05:59 PM
 matrix Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: UK Posts: 7,050
Re: Basic Theory - Raising preflop

[ QUOTE ]
Great thread guys, but I have a question.

What happens when it's already opened for a raise in front of you and you have a hand good enough to re-raise.

How do you size that kind of bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

re-raise to size of the pot.

e.g. \$25NL we have KK in the CO and UTG+1 openraises 4BB, and it's folded to us.

We want to re-raise for value with our KK everytime here in position.

the pot started with the blinds 0.35 and UTG+1 raised 4BB so presently there is 1.35 in the pot.

We call the 4BB raise and the pot now stands at 2.35, so we want to raise a further 2.35 so that if UTG+1 wants to call (lets assume the blinds fold) he is faced with calling our raise with onl 1:1 pot odds.

In this spot our total reraise amount is \$3.35 (\$1 to call the original raise + \$2.35 (the size of the new pot after we call the raise))

After our raise UTG+1 has to call \$2.35 into a pot of \$4.70 which basically means he is making a mistake calling with most of his hands, and the more mistakes we can get the villains to make the more money we win [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

There is a "bet pot" script which you can find in the software forum that automates this amount for Party - and Full Tilt and UB have "bet pot" buttons which do the same as well.
#53
10-05-2006, 01:31 PM
 King Spew Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,080
Re: Basic Theory - Raising preflop

[ QUOTE ]
Hey King,

What do you do when villian doesn't let you see flop cheaply?

After you limp, they 3 or 4xbb + 1 ea. limper.

How do we handle that?

[/ QUOTE ]

sudic---

Simple answer is: I fold. It is much more complicated than that though. Things to consider off the top of my head:

Has the table been playing up? Are most hands bumped up PF? What is the size of an average bump? As an example, the big stack may juice every pot PF 2-3XBB using his stack as a weapon. I'll call with my better limping hands in position....of course raising my top pair hands still.

Stack size and position issues are weighed heavily in any decision.

What is villain's PFR%? If it's over 15-18%, I'll play more pots. If it's VERY small, does my hand play well against AA?

Probably THE factor is, how good are they post-flop and just as important, how am I viewed post-flop.

But mostly, if it's raised in front of me I fold. Raised behind, meh, see above. Also, if I'm not able to play MY game, I move to a different table.
#54
11-24-2007, 05:54 PM
 TomBrooks Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Trying Stud Games Posts: 7,369
Re: Basic Theory - Raising preflop

...to get a free card on the turn. (If your on the button or expect to buy the button.)
#55
11-24-2007, 06:19 PM
 TheRegulat0r Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New England. Posts: 322
Re: Basic Theory - Raising preflop

[ QUOTE ]

7) To isolate donkeys

[/ QUOTE ]

V nice. In my experience most micro/SSNL players are not adequately adjusting their pre-flop game to take these two factors into account.

Fairly often you see tight players asking how to go about getting more aggressive pre-flop... Raising for these two reasons is a great place to start imo.
#56
11-24-2007, 06:23 PM
 DaycareInferno Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: wot u say Posts: 1,286
Re: Basic Theory - Raising preflop

i honestly don't think it matters much at all. against bad players, you can just blatantly manipulate the size of the pot post-flop depending on your hand strength, and that's where most of your money is going to come from.
#57
11-24-2007, 06:38 PM
 DaycareInferno Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: wot u say Posts: 1,286
Re: Basic Theory - Raising preflop

there are also some balancing benefits to other approaches. for instance, lets say a person preferred raising 3+1 or pot. when a person limps in front of you, and you make it 5 to go, if you get 3bet by someone with a wide 3betting range, the extra money in the pot makes it very difficult to 4bet with a balanced range with 100b stacks, whereas its not so much the case with with 3+1 always.

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