Bet/call flop, get there on turn, then.......check?

Ghazban · #1 07-17-2007, 03:44 PM

2/4 6-max $454 effective stacks

I pot A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] UTG, folds to BB who calls. BB seems kind of weird; he likes to minraise preflop both as the opener and after limpers or from the blinds. He hasn't gone past a flop postflop yet as he's folding to aggression from some of the other players at the table (not me; we haven't played a pot together yet).

Flop comes K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($30)

He checks, I pot, he minraises to $60, I call

Turn K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($150)

He checks, I check

River 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($150)

He checks, I check

sc000t · #2 07-17-2007, 03:45 PM

I check behind on this flop here.

As played I check turn then value bet river.

Ghazban · #3 07-17-2007, 03:54 PM

What worse hand is donkraising the flop and then paying off on the river? The flopped straight is vomiting and folding and two pair filled up or got counterfeited. The only worse hands paying off IMO are smaller flushes and they don't ever check/minraise the flop do they? (maybe QJxx with hearts but one of those is a straight flush now).

oneouterson · #4 07-17-2007, 04:30 PM

I like s000t line on this one.
Most flushes will pay off a value bet on the river. Checking behind river is way to weak.

Ghazban · #5 07-17-2007, 04:35 PM

Which flushes are check/minraising the flop?

CrushinFelt · #6 07-17-2007, 04:42 PM

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Which flushes are check/minraising the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. I don't see you squeezing any value out of this hand. If they call you're beat, if they fold, you were ahead anyways. Betting sucks.

oneouterson · #7 07-17-2007, 04:43 PM

Could have something like AxQh5h6x or AxJh8h9x. Could of flopped the straight with a flush draw.

Ghazban · #8 07-17-2007, 05:07 PM

I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate with the "what calls?" questions.... I would probably recommend a river bet (and probably a flop check) if somebody else posted the hand. I was about to bet and I just had a bad feeling so I checked it through.

Opponent had KQJ9 with no hearts and took it down. I'm pretty sure his flop check/minraise was the worst possible way he could play that street with that holding.

sc000t · #9 07-17-2007, 05:21 PM

I think calling the min raise with no intent to value bet flushes after being checked twice here is pretty nitty.

Its a pretty strong read to put him on a Full house after two checks OOP here. IMO you have to try to get some value out of this river the times he has smaller flushes or or hands like KQJx.

With the line villian took here, I don't see him turning over a fullhouse alot here. Most will keep betting the turn/river for value OR check the turn and BET the river for fear of hero checking weaker hands with showdown value behind like you did on the turn.

Ghazban · #10 07-17-2007, 05:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With the line villian took here, I don't see him turning over a fullhouse alot here. Most will keep betting the turn/river for value OR check the turn and BET the river for fear of hero checking weaker hands with showdown value behind like you did on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree wholeheartedly but that's not enough of a reason to bet. If no worse hands ever call (hyperbole) it's a bad spot to bet. If the opponent has the ability to turn a made hand (straight, small flush) into a bluff and checkraise the river, betting looks even worse (no, I don't think most players at this level are capable of that but I'm just talking hypotheticals).