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#1
05-13-2007, 03:48 PM
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Inside Poker article - \"The Greek\" on \"Real Pot Odds\"
Now I don't mean to be rude, but has anyone read this article in this months UK's Inside Poker? This guy claims you don't need to be an Oxbridge maths grad to calculate pot odds, which is true, so why does he make things so mathematically complicated for himself, he actually completely screws up the numbers?
Ok, here's his example hand: you hold K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] flop comes J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] How many outs do you have? I say 21 max. He's right, you'll get a few different answers to this, and I agree when he says it's best to consider you probably have 15 outs, as the overcards will often not be enough. Fine So he goes on to figure out the pot odds and the required odds for calling. And he does it in a way I've never come across before: "Let's assume this is a full table and 20 cards are dealt out. We also have a burn card and three cards that appear on the board,so, 24 of the 52 cards in the deck have already been utilized, meaning that 46% of the cards in the deck are out; it is also logical to assume that 46% of your possible outs are also out. As such, you probably have eight "realistic" outs remaining to improve your hand. In other words, you have about a 28% chance of catching one of your outs in the remaining 28 cards. Thus proper pot odds to make the call and continue on the turn would be something in the region of 3.5/1. Nevertheless, 4/1 is really what you want in order to make this a profitable venture. If you continuously call in this scenario with pot odds of 4/1 or greater, you'll do well in the long run." Can you spot the glaring error in this "logic"? He doesn't say whether we're talking limit or no limit. If it's no-limit the whole call or no call makes no sense to me - I'd be thinking of how much I should raise! Now I'm not really having a pop at the Greek himself, as this guy's been a pro for over 30 years and can obviously play, but how can any self-respecting poker publication let this drivel go to press? I should probably drop them an email and ask. 
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#2
05-13-2007, 03:57 PM
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Re: Inside Poker article - \"The Greek\" on \"Real Pot Odds\"
actually, I've just noticed, this article does come under the No-limit section of strategy part of the magazine. This makes it even more confusing. How often do you think in a NLH game are you going to be able to call a flop bet at 4/1 to see the turn on a flop like this? Never, perhaps?
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#3
05-13-2007, 04:43 PM
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Re: Inside Poker article - \"The Greek\" on \"Real Pot Odds\"
some of these oldschool live pros dont really have a strong mathematical understanding of the game
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#4
05-13-2007, 05:31 PM
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Re: Inside Poker article - \"The Greek\" on \"Real Pot Odds\"
I truly do not understand how someone can be this clueless... This is the kind of thing I literally thought about for about 1 minute the third time I played poker. Then I realized I was an r-tard and had a good laugh about it. This guy is actually writing for a magazine?
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#5
05-13-2007, 05:59 PM
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Re: Inside Poker article - \"The Greek\" on \"Real Pot Odds\"
Whoever wrote this is a huge donk. Also in limit it's an easy bet/raise independent of your position.
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#6
05-13-2007, 06:02 PM
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Re: Inside Poker article - \"The Greek\" on \"Real Pot Odds\"
lol. im sure it must have been a typo. theres no way they would let somebody that bad write that. i just cant believe they didn't proof read it. the example he chose is obviously awful tho lol.
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#7
05-13-2007, 06:13 PM
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Re: Inside Poker article - \"The Greek\" on \"Real Pot Odds\"
Ok, now I'm truely stunned. This guy is no donk by the way.
Here's his website - http://www.johnthegreekpoker.com/ and get this, he's aparantly a maths genius! From his own website: Academic Achievements As someone who always grasped mathematics quickly, John had completed the four year undergraduate mathematic requirements by the age of 15. John was accepted into MIT at the age of 16, and was simultaneously nominated for inclusion in Who’s Who in Young Americans for his mathematical achievements. John withdrew from College following the untimely death of his father. John returned later to complete his education and currently possesses an MBA.
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#9
05-13-2007, 06:17 PM
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Re: Inside Poker article - \"The Greek\" on \"Real Pot Odds\"
Perhaps he is deliberately misguiding the public to make games easier?
In this situation you are at worst flipping but are usually a significant favorite. I don't see how someone who knows anything about poker could advocate a fold if your getting worse the 4/1 here.
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