Top pair meh kicker

[DrModern]

Is there an ad hoc method for pairs?

[Bilgefisher]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dr. recheck your combos on pocket pairs

[/ QUOTE ]

4 possibilities for the first card * 3 possibilities for the next = 12, no?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not 4 possibilities for the first card...only 3.
Ex:
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
(A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]already made pair with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
(A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] already made pair with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]and A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] )

I count 6 combos...unless this is the incorrect way of thinking about.
Now if your looking at AK. There is 4 K possibilities per A. Giving you 16 combos.

[DrModern]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dr. recheck your combos on pocket pairs

[/ QUOTE ]

4 possibilities for the first card * 3 possibilities for the next = 12, no?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not 4 possibilities for the first card...only 3.
Ex:
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
(A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]already made pair with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
(A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] already made pair with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]and A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] )

I count 6 combos...unless this is the incorrect way of thinking about it.
Now if your looking at AK. There is 4 K possibilities per A. Giving you 16 combos.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, Bilge. Yeah, I just did it on paper with AA to prove it to myself.

So a good ad hoc method for pairs is 3 * 2.

Interestingly enough, though, since I consistently made the same mistake with pairs, I'm pretty sure my percentage figure (71%) is still correct.

[Bilgefisher]

[/ QUOTE ]
So a good ad hoc method for pairs is 3 * 2.

Interestingly enough, though, since I consistently made the same mistake with pairs, I'm pretty sure my percentage figure (71%) is still correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, Im going be a bit of a nit here, although it doesn't really matter that much. Its technically 3! 3*2*1 So it would be (n-1)! for (n=number of cards used.)

To be honest though, I'll just remember that pairs are 6 combos. Like you stated.




Btw: Doc, I know your aware of what factorial is, I simply put it in there for others.

[milesdyson]

"Interestingly enough, though, since I consistently made the same mistake with pairs, I'm pretty sure my percentage figure (71%) is still correct. "

its not.

[DrModern]

Ahead of 96 combos.

Behind 37 combos.

96/133 = 72%

All right, different (but close).

[Shillx]

Pretty damn close I'd say.

Board: Qc 2s 7h
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 30.9111 % 30.71% 00.20% { 88+, A9s+, KTs+, QJs, ATo+, KJo+ }
Hand 2: 69.0889 % 68.89% 00.20% { Qs8s }

Don't be a pussy and check/call down.

[milesdyson]

the point being:

top pair is pretty damn good 3-way in this situation. plz dont just check call down.

[DrModern]

Um, I never advocated check-calling down. Or were you responding to the OP?

I said I could see arguments for the following: check-raising the flop; donking the flop.

[milesdyson]

im responding to everyone who said, check call check call check call check call check call.

also i dont like donking unless you are 3-betting the flop.

a c/r ALWAYS gets 2 bets in on the flop.

a donk USUALLY gets 2 bets in on the flop when the guy who raises you has you beaten. so unless you know he raises underpairs or AK/AJ there, you should not be donking without the intent to 3-bet for value.