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#11
11-27-2006, 03:05 PM
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Re: 99 Middle Pair
Okay but when villain donks that turn into 2 players, he more often than not has us beat, do you raisers agree? Thinking back through the couple hundred thousand hands of SH LHE I've played, we're beat the majority of the time there. Wackjob makes a good point with his post in favor of just calling as well.
Basically I think the raise is completely useless unless you have a good reason to believe that the donker could be doing this with a worse hand. 
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#12
11-27-2006, 03:06 PM
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Re: 99 Middle Pair
[ QUOTE ]
Okay but when villain donks that turn into 2 players, he more often than not has us beat, do you raisers agree? Thinking back through the couple hundred thousand hands of SH LHE I've played, we're beat the majority of the time there. Wackjob makes a good point with his post in favor of just calling as well. Basically I think the raise is completely useless unless you have a good reason to believe that the donker could be doing this with a worse hand. [/ QUOTE ] I've been donked into with a TON of hands in this situation and we aren't beat by much on this board. Usually a really strong hand like a straight will try to c/r here.
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#13
11-27-2006, 03:13 PM
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Re: 99 Middle Pair
[ QUOTE ]
just call down. raising the turn allows the donkey to get away from his bad hands, and charge you most when he has you smoked. if he is bluffing, let him continue to bluff. if he has you beat, you won't know it so you want to get to SD cheaply. [/ QUOTE ] how does it charge me anything? 2 bets = 2 bets raise/fold, check river seems perfect
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#15
11-27-2006, 08:16 PM
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Re: 99 Middle Pair
It seems I picked the choice no one else did. I folded. It wasn't the BB that concerned me, it was UTG. I had only been at the table for 15 hands or so and the BB seemed to make a few donk plays. I was thinking UTG could easily just call down with top pair. Played a bit scared, but downswings have that effect sometimes. Live and learn I guess.
Only 2k hands into 6-max and one of my biggest problems atm is learning when to call down with a less then exciting hand. Expect more hands down the road. Preflop: Hero is MP with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls. Flop: (10 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font> SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls. Turn: (6.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero folds. River: (8.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> BB checks, UTG checks. Final Pot: 8.50 BB Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF"> BB has 6d 9d (one pair, tens). UTG has 5s 5h (two pair, tens and fives). Outcome: UTG wins 8.50 BB. </font>
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#16
11-27-2006, 09:07 PM
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Re: 99 Middle Pair
[ QUOTE ]
Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF"> BB has 6d 9d (one pair, tens). UTG has 5s 5h (two pair, tens and fives). Outcome: UTG wins 8.50 BB. </font> [/ QUOTE ] Seeing this kind of garbage often is the reason I like to raise the turn here. IMO BB really doesn't have us beat a large portion of the time and I like to punish UTG for sticking around. I see turn donks all the time with small pp's and turned draws - as well as a good chunk of TP but not enough to make me rule out a raise. I know this now looks bad because I've seen the results but this was my opinion as I read the body of the thread beforehand.
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