Trash hands turning into good draws

[jesse8888]

This basic situation happens to me a lot:

I'm in the small or big blind with a marginal holding. Nobody raised and I either complete or check. I then proceed to flop a "can't win unless you hit" draw against 4+ opponents in a smallish pot and am first or second to act. How do I proceed, and what should I be thinking about?

Specific hands:

Hand 1: Hero has 68o in the BB and gets a free look at a flop of 79Ar. There are 6 players total in the pot, including the small blind, who checks. The players are fairly standard 6/12ers. Few flops have been checking through, so it's likely someone will bet, but I have no idea who.

Hand 2: Hero is in the small blind with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and completes, only to see the flop bring A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. The flop was seen 7 handed, and again the players are a standard mix for a 6/12 table.

What would you do in these two situations? What do you do in general in situations like this?

[KitCloudkicker]

i used to bet in situations like these but now i think checking is best. you can then determine your course of action after you see what goes on before you.

no bet = you cant get raised and drive others out = you preserve your implied odds.

[gobbledygeek]

I'd be interested in the correct play to this situation as well.

With most likely 4+ going to the turn (as is usually the case at my 2/4 table) I'd like to build as big as pot as possible on these flops, but I'm not exactly sure how to go about this if there isn't a preflop raiser. I usually just bet out cuz I'd hate for it to check around (and lots of passive players will check a weak A on the flop). But perhaps I should be checking and seeing where the bet comes from (hopefully early on so I can check/raise the field)?

GcluelessnoobG

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be interested in the correct play to this situation as well.

With most likely 4+ going to the turn (as is usually the case at my 2/4 table) I'd like to build as big as pot as possible on these flops, but I'm not exactly sure how to go about this if there isn't a preflop raiser. I usually just bet out cuz I'd hate for it to check around (and lots of passive players will check a weak A on the flop). But perhaps I should be checking and seeing where the bet comes from (hopefully early on so I can check/raise the field)?

GcluelessnoobG

[/ QUOTE ]

geek, in your 2/4 games, a bet probably makes more sense. people just dont raise in those games without the nuts.

i play 10/20 which is usually more aggro.

not sure what the OP's 6/12 is like

[Aces McGee]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually just bet out cuz I'd hate for it to check around

[/ QUOTE ]

gobbledygeek,

While betting could be correct in passive games, note that letting it check through is hardly a disaster.

-McGee

[jesse8888]

[ QUOTE ]

not sure what the OP's 6/12 is like

[/ QUOTE ]

It varies quite a bit depending on who's sitting. Sometimes it'll go super passive and play a lot like the 2/4, but there are times I wonder if people know they're allowed to check on the button (like maybe they think we've added some weird euchre style "stick the dealer" variant).

In general we're struggling here with "I want some money to go in, but I don't really want to knock anybody out".

I'd have to disagree on the flop checking through not being a disaster in at least hand 2: I have a draw to the nut flush 7 handed, or something like 30% equity in a 7 way pot. Money must go in there. In the first hand, I agree that checking through is not a disaster.

[Lethe]

As mentioned by others, I think this really depends on the texture of the table. If there are aggro guys to my left, I'm checking. If there are aggro guys to my right, I might bet it out. If the table is super passive, I'm definitely betting it out.

On a "standard" table (and if they are similar to the 4/8 games I play, this means very loose, and mostly passive with maybe one or two slightly more aggro players) I lean more towards checking in hand one, and more towards betting in hand 2.

[earlytimes1]

as others said it depends who the aggressor is likely to be, if on my left, I check (and look to C/R if many callers), if on my right I lead out. in both cases at a LP table my equity is around 33% so if I have 3+ callers I am looking to get as many bets in as possible, for value.

only really bad scenario is I lead & EP raises, shutting out the field. if it checks around it's not really awful, you get a freebie.

[mrcunningham]

Jesse, It will depend on the table texture, and I agree with you that it can really vary. Since you play evenings, my guess is that you might be best off betting out. It is pretty common that even if you get raised, there will be multiple cold callers. Moreover, I think when you hit your draw you'll get more callers than if you are seen checking the flop and betting or raising the turn because it seems that the majority of those folks wouldn't think of betting a draw early. my 2 cents.

[lamboruns]

depends...sometimes i check..somtimes i lead...sometimes i check raise if i check and a lag leads i will raise him..then lead on the next round regardless ..depending on the texture and if its a nut draw with maybe an over