PA: Pittsburgh Area Poker Legality Lawsuit

[MayorHerb]

http://www.riverloc.com/

Burns was charged with running a tournament advertised on one date, but items and cash from another charity tournament were confiscated. He was not charged as of this post with anything regarding running that tournament according to his website. He is suing for return of equipment and cash from that tournament from which he was not charged, and arguing that poker is not gambling.

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"...Burns and his attorney, David J. Millstein, insist poker is not gambling under state law because it is a game of skill.

Unlawful gambling, Millstein said, is defined as paying to participate in a game predominated by chance to win an award.

"Our position is it's no different from playing in a golf tournament," Millstein said.

Millstein filed a motion seeking to recover more than $11,000 and other property police confiscated from Burns' home and office and the Seward hall. The remaining money was seized Aug. 22 from a bank account.

Westmoreland County Judge Richard E. McCormick Jr. scheduled an Oct. 9 hearing on that motion.

The president of No Dice, a regional organization opposed to government-sponsored gambling, said it's ironic the state is cracking down on a poker ring at a time when it's luring gamblers to recently opened casinos. "


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Ironic indeed.

On what Burns is charged with, gambling devices, here is the statute:
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§ 5513. Gambling devices, gambling, etc. (a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree if he: (1) intentionally or knowingly makes, assembles, sets up, maintains, sells, lends, leases, gives away, or offers for sale, loan, lease or gift, any punch board, drawing card, slot machine or any device to be used for gambling purposes, except playing cards; (2) allows persons to collect and assemble for the purpose of unlawful gambling at any place under his control; (3) solicits or invites any person to visit any unlawful gambling place for the purpose of gambling; or (4) being the owner, tenant, lessee or occupant of any premises, knowingly permits or suffers the same, or any part thereof, to be used for the purpose of unlawful gambling.


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Now I'm just an interested bystander who also has to enforce these laws.

This is a precedent-setting case. Why is more attention not being paid to this?!?

Right now, it's open to opinion of the local authorities, the state police and the county DA's (and perhaps the PLCB with bars) on what constitutes "unlawful gambling".

[Grasshopp3r]

Thank you for bringing this case to our attention. As you are aware, cases that are under local jurisdiction do not hit the national scene unless they are reported. If it is a local matter, it is not immediately precedent setting to a wider venue until it is appealed to higher courts.

There should be a PPA response team that will deal with coordinating the defense of these types of cases as they will start to set precedents.

[IWEARGOGGLES]

Most of the PA Poker tournaments were shut down too because they kept getting raided.

I mean, they were only $60 tournaments but it was set up really well with lots of food, nice people, etc. Going to games at Oakridge and Sutersville really helped me get more into poker.

There is still a great 5/10/20NL game about 5 blocks from my house though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
Most of the PA Poker tournaments were shut down too because they kept getting raided.

I mean, they were only $60 tournaments but it was set up really well with lots of food, nice people, etc. Going to games at Oakridge and Sutersville really helped me get more into poker.

There is still a great 5/10/20NL game about 5 blocks from my house though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Check your phone for bugs and take elusive manuvers in any future trips to the game.... [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]



D$D

[Skallagrim]

I agree that one function of the PPA ought to be to provide assistance to lawsuits such as this one.

I was going to bring this up at the fly-in - but am pretty certain I wont be able to make the fly in (damn, damn, damn).

Engineer, if you read this before I PM you, dont you think a good thing to talk to Pappas about is having a litigation support team? I can provide some help for free, and more if I can be paid (these things do take time) - but there is at least one lawyer already on the PPA board (AJ Shulman).

What I envision is a team to help local counsel in cases just like this where the issue is "skill v. chance." I have already freely provided the basis of a solid legal argument, and have worked with one PPA board member who is a pro-player who could be the star expert witness in presenting the argument. Seems to me other pros would help here too and other PPA lawyers. And there must be site gys who can provide statistics....

I dont envision the PPA going around filing lawsuits (like the ACLU), but being the central key resource for people who do find themselves in this kind of litigation.

What do the rest of you think?

Skallagrim

[JPFisher55]

Skall, I agree. This would be the first really positive step that I have seen from the PPA.

[Legislurker]

Maybe make a good attempt to troll 2p2 for all lawyers willing to work cheap or volunteer, or at least provide some advice. Gum up the courts. Didnt the PPA at one time state a goal of having all poker legal? The publicity of a trial with some corresponding ads in local papers could bea huge membership drive. If the money is there to start, it will pay for itself. Provided the PPA reforms to be appealing and stand up to scrutiny.

[Skallagrim]

Law doesnt quite work that way, LL. It is generally "unethical" for a lawyer to solicit clients, so you cant have the PPA going around looking for plaintiffs.

What is ethical is A) having a list of lawyers who are PPA members so plaintiffs and defendants, if they choose, can have some insight about who to hire, and MORE IMPORTANTLY B) having a central team of lawyers and experts who can assist any local counsel when these issues arise in a case.

A while back an unsung poker hero initiated a lawsuit in NC to get poker declared a game of skill. Only one prominent poker player/writer went to help him out (Roy Cooke, to his credit). A search of this forum will reveal a couple threads discussing that opinion and, most importantly, HOW THE LITIGATION COULD HAVE BEEN DONE BETTER HAD THE PLAINTIFF'S BEEN ABLE TO GET MORE HELP.

Thats where the PPA should come in. Whenever a "skill v. chance" case comes up the PPA litigation support team should be able to provide sample arguments/motions/briefs and coordinate expert witnesses in poker and statistics who can present the basic proof I came up with (and also posted in this forum) months ago and expand and verify it. Once a victory is obtained anywhere, the ball starts rolling our way, and we move dramatically forward.

As an attorney I know that the biggest difficulty in these situations is getting the right argument presented with the right experts. Usually a client and an attorney have no way of funding this kind of effort and so go into court with one hand tied behind their back(s). That is what the PPA could easily remedy by having the argument and witnesses set up and ready to go, hopefully at PPA expense, but at a minimum the expense to the client should be just expenses (no expert or additional attorney fees).

I have spoke with TE about this, and hope that the PPA leadership sees this as an important PPA asset.

Skallagrim

[Grasshopp3r]

This is something that the PPA should have on their website. The key is to make the arguments as visible as possible.

[sirfoldalot]

I think the thing that hasn't been discussed is that these games are taking a casino type rake. The cash games that form after the tournaments have a rake taken out as well. This is the main reason for the busts of the PAPoker games. A federal prosecutor plays in my monthly home game and constantly states that if you take the rake out of the picture a prosecutor won't bother with it.

Here is a link to a pdf article I put on my site when a PAPoker event was busted near me in WV back in 2005. The authorities even mention the rake as the factor.

I apologize for the quality...

Link to article