my toughest opponent - passive opponent NL

[Vinetou]

I have a lot of problems playing against passive opponents who never raise, they only check call or check fold all the time. They play bottom pair the same as top two pair or a set, they never raise, never reraise... I just don't know how to put them on a hand, don't know when to bluff them and when to check multiple streets. I am not talking about loose passive calling stations, against those you just value bet, but these guys seem to know what they are doing. For example, they will check call one time with bottom pair, but check fold it on the turn. But I don't know whether to fire the turn or not because they might have the nuts. Or they might check call two times with middle pair and then I check river IP and go crazy when they show me middle pair because I know they would fold on the river if I bet (they are not calling stations!). Or I make a three barrell bluff and they show me flopped set (and BTW, they didn't move in on the river with it - no, they just called again!).

I always seem to lose money against these guys and I feel that this strategy is the best against a superaggressive guy like me. It is really the most profitable strategy against me and I don't know how to beat them and I don't even know the secret of their success. It is totally different than what we learn here - aggression, aggression, aggression.

Anyone has some similar experience?

[xSCWx]

The key to these players is pot control. If they are calling stations just build the pots with your stronger hands. Top pair, middle pair... even bottom pair on the flop.

If they are actually folding to bets you can just take one stab at most pots for 1/2-2/3.

The key the beating these players isn't running them over with bets, it is just betting when you will "usually" be ahead. If your first bluff fails you don't need to fire any more barrels unless you think you both missed a draw.

[Vinetou]

You are right. But they call one barrell liberaly, just not two of them. Sometimes even with king high.

[xSCWx]

If they are liberally calling 1 barrel you can either increase your bet size or increase the hand range you will fire with.

If you are being called liberally by high card you should increase your bet sizing to punish them for it every time you have a pair, and fire another barrel on any "safe" turn and river.

I wouldn't continue firing with air though unless you really have reason to believe you can push them off. If they seem to be major calling stations I would suggest taking it easy with your draws as well.

[Vinetou]

They are not calling stations, they are just passive. For example, I make a c bet, they call, check turn, check river, I make a bet on the river, they call and show me two pair.

They are far from calling stations.

[xSCWx]

You really need to just think about how likely it is that they will be showing up with something better. I bet 1/2 - 2/3 pot against these players on the flop with ace high or any pair, and check through until I hit something with worse hands.

With a strong top pair I vary between firing 3 barrels or firing at the flop, checking the turn, then firing a big fake bluff at the river.

Although it can be very frustrating when they are running hot and seem to be showing up consistently with big hands, passive players really should be your easiest opponents. In the long run if you are continuing to go to showdowns you should be showing up with big hands just as often as they are, but you have complete pot control to take advantage of when you are a big favorite.

[TNixon]

[ QUOTE ]
If they are liberally calling 1 barrel you can either increase your bet size or increase the hand range you will fire with.

[/ QUOTE ]
Against an opponent who will call 1 barrel pretty loose, but usually fold to the second barrel, shouldn't you *strongly* prefer two smaller shots to one bigger one?

I run across opponents all the time who will call the first barrel with as little as even a single overcard, but who will fold their weaker hands (including some weaker paired hands) almost 100% if I fire twice. Sounds like this is exactly the sort of opponent Vinetou is talking about.

[xSCWx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If they are liberally calling 1 barrel you can either increase your bet size or increase the hand range you will fire with.

[/ QUOTE ]
Against an opponent who will call 1 barrel pretty loose, but usually fold to the second barrel, shouldn't you *strongly* prefer two smaller shots to one bigger one?

I run across opponents all the time who will call the first barrel with as little as even a single overcard, but who will fold their weaker hands (including some weaker paired hands) almost 100% if I fire twice. Sounds like this is exactly the sort of opponent Vinetou is talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't really take the 1 barrel thing as inferring that they would fold easily to the second one, but if that is the case then the second barrel is really necessary.

[recondite7]

you need to slowdown they are properly adjusting to you, but it is unlikely they will adjust twice in the same sitngo so just stop being as aggressive and be willing to check down marginal hands and get the most value out of your monsters.

[Vancity82]

I know exactly the opponent your talking about, I just assumed I was running bad vs. this particular type of player.
I tried being more conscience of timing tells on my part, as well it seems they adjust to your play if you start to slow down they stop calling so light.
I think the best way to adjust is tone down the aggression and just play straight forward, playing your cards. Because if they play the same way and all the big pots are when your in position and the small ones when they're in position because they never raise preflop, I think we can grind them down and have a significant edge. It's just about slowing down vs. this opp.