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#82
11-02-2007, 08:30 PM
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Re: Baseball managers are vastly overrated
[ QUOTE ]
we turn to Terry Francona [/ QUOTE ] Isn't it amazing how these guys suddenly develop management skills once they are given teams with all the pieces in place? I mean when Francona was "Francoma" with the Phillies, where were his sick management skills that are now supposedly worth $5 million per? 
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#83
11-02-2007, 08:48 PM
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Re: Baseball managers are vastly overrated
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] we turn to Terry Francona [/ QUOTE ] Isn't it amazing how these guys suddenly develop management skills once they are given teams with all the pieces in place? I mean when Francona was "Francoma" with the Phillies, where were his sick management skills that are now supposedly worth $5 million per? [/ QUOTE ] Ortiz was not worth nearly what he is on the Red Sox as he was on the Twins. Do you see? Ok, I'll explain: People learn, improve, find different environments which lend to better success. Ok I get your point to the extent that yes, throw Torre on the Royals and he'll still having a losing record...probably. Winning baseball is part management, part players (granted a much larger part players). Let me give you an example. If I am driving a car and you are in the backseat, it's easy to criticize me (driving too fast or swerving or whatever), but you don't notice all the little things I am doing- constantly checking my speed, my blind spots, blocking the sun from my eyes, staring at the road constantly)...you are like the backseat driver of a baseball team, you just don't know what is involved.
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#84
11-02-2007, 08:51 PM
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Re: Baseball managers are vastly overrated
I think Francona was a decent manager with the Phillies too. Never thought of him as having 'sick' management skills though but whatever.
He was also considered a top manager when he was in the minor-leagues IIRC. edit - found it on wikipedia. I thought he had won minor-league manager of the year or something like that and was widely considered to be really good but couldn't remember for sure. "As manager of the AA franchise Birmingham Barons from 1993-1995, he posted a 223-203 record and won two distinctions: Southern League Manager of the Year in 1993, Baseball America's Minor League Manager of the Year in 1993, and top managerial candidate by Baseball America in 1994." I remember him being considered a top manager before that when he was with single-A South Bend in 92. Some of the guys saying that it's all about the old-boys' network and that anyone could do it otherwise kind of sound like the bitter and bad poker-players who think they could destroy the 100/200 game just as well as the next guy if they had the bankroll for it. Similar to the baseball idiots...the bad poker-players who claim that they could do just as well in the higher games don't even know how bad they are or how much they don't know. tuq - feel free to ban everyone in this thread but me. You're a new mod. Mat will forgive you for 'accidentally' banning outside your forum.
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#85
11-02-2007, 08:53 PM
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Re: Baseball managers are vastly overrated
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] we turn to Terry Francona [/ QUOTE ] Isn't it amazing how these guys suddenly develop management skills once they are given teams with all the pieces in place? I mean when Francona was "Francoma" with the Phillies, where were his sick management skills that are now supposedly worth $5 million per? [/ QUOTE ] Ortiz was not worth nearly what he is on the Red Sox as he was on the Twins. Do you see? Ok, I'll explain: People learn, improve, find different environments which lend to better success. Ok I get your point to the extent that yes, throw Torre on the Royals and he'll still having a losing record...probably. Winning baseball is part management, part players (granted a much larger part players). Let me give you an example. If I am driving a car and you are in the backseat, it's easy to criticize me (driving too fast or swerving or whatever), but you don't notice all the little things I am doing- constantly checking my speed, my blind spots, blocking the sun from my eyes, staring at the road constantly)...you are like the backseat driver of a baseball team, you just don't know what is involved. [/ QUOTE ] Lets imagine a hypothetical. What if there was a job where there really WASNT much going on behind the scenes, what you saw was pretty much all there was to it. Then lets pretend someone started a thread talking about how overrated the people doing that job were. Would you come into that thread and post about how there was all this stuff going on behind closed doors and behind the scenes that all of us backseat drivers just werent privy to? Yes, of course you would. You dont actually KNOW that all this stuff is happening, you are just saying its possible that it could be. Well, thats not that useful. How can we tell the difference between a subtly complicated job like managing a baseball team and a superficially obviously simple job? You are going to call us backseat drivers no matter what, right?
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#86
11-02-2007, 09:41 PM
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Re: Baseball managers are vastly overrated
PR,
Does that mean Ron Gardenheire should get fired for wasting such a talent? Or that Grady Little should be managing somewhere for developing him? Also I love that you right a paragraph illustrating the term "back seat driver". I would have preferred this. Imagine you are a fan of a football team. Football games are traditionally played on Sundays. The Quarterback is the most important football player and is crucial to the team winning. Often times QB's lose games because of their play on Sunday. Now imagine on Monday you criticize the QB for his play the previous day. You would be a Monday Morning QB, but I have news for you bucko when the game is being played on Sunday and DLinemen are running at you and you have one second to throw a ball at a perfect spot just on time it is a lot harder to do.
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#87
11-02-2007, 09:45 PM
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Re: Baseball managers are vastly overrated
[ QUOTE ]
When it comes to coaches (or in this case managers) importance in major sports, baseball is by far the least and football is by far the most, particularly college football. I'd be surprised if too many people disagreed. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, you know. Apples and oranges.
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#88
11-02-2007, 09:48 PM
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Re: Baseball managers are vastly overrated
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] When it comes to coaches (or in this case managers) importance in major sports, baseball is by far the least and football is by far the most, particularly college football. I'd be surprised if too many people disagreed. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, you know, you are wrong. Apples and oranges. [/ QUOTE ] Apples and oranges? No, we are talking about apples the whole time. "Importance" = apple. There are no oranges.
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#89
11-02-2007, 10:06 PM
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Re: Baseball managers are vastly overrated
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] When it comes to coaches (or in this case managers) importance in major sports, baseball is by far the least and football is by far the most, particularly college football. I'd be surprised if too many people disagreed. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, you know, you are wrong. Apples and oranges. [/ QUOTE ] Apples and oranges? No, we are talking about apples the whole time. "Importance" = apple. There are no oranges. [/ QUOTE ] Actually there is no explanation here. So there is nothing edible at all. Fruit or vegetable.
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#90
11-02-2007, 10:08 PM
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Re: Baseball managers are vastly overrated
[ QUOTE ]
Jim Leyland said it best in 2006 when the Tigers started off white-hot and then hit their first bad stretch: "These guys smell like Old Spice." [/ QUOTE ]
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