Why selfishness is a good thing( some christianity involved)

[valenzuela]

This is the val selfishness quoficient scale:
total selfishness = 1
" love others as u love urself" = 0
caring about other while not caring about u = -1.

The chrisitian ideal is 0. 0 means that youre neighbour is just as important as you.
Now that is a bit problematic. Sports would be very boring to watch, etc.

To be fair lets move our new christian ideal to 0,2. 0,2 means mother teresa. You basically dedicate your life to the poor.

We also have 0,8. A VSQ of 0,8 is the normal douchebag( u, me, DS, etc). 0,8 is what we have now.

We also have 1. 1 is someone totally egocentric.

What would happen if we had a higher VSQ: Much more parents would neglect their kids and we would have lacked the cooperation needed to succeed.

What would happen if we had a lower VSQ: It would be bad for our evolution, we would care too much for the weak. Note that lower VSQ with ppl would have probably lead to lower VSQ with animals.

Another reason why we need a high VSQ its because of reproduction .
If Jimmy and Bob fall in love with Mary. Jimmy will now see Bob as a rival, that is necesarry because if Jimmy doesnt have an absolute desire to defeat Bob in the conquest on Mary then a sub-par reproduction could happen.( we need individuals to be 100% focused on getting the person they love, the way to achieve that is with high 100% VQS)
The only way for Jimmy to have an absolute desire to defeat Bob in the conquest of Mary is for him to have a VSQ that is high enough on the first place.

So what Im basically saying is that humans need to be selfish( but not too selfish) for practical reasons.

Christianity puts a lot of emphasis on a lower VSQ, and that is the huge mistake of christianity.
Jesus himself said that we should love others the same as we love ourselves, that sentence should be a reason strong enough to not be christian. Chrisitanity simply doesnt fit with the real world.
A religion in which a guy who died for someone else is a saint has to be wrong.( maximilian kolbe)
If we all had the VSQ of the ppl that christians admire we would have never made it to the point we are now.

[PLOlover]

What about the story in the NT about the virgins and the oil and how it explicitly says for the haves to not share with the have nots?

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
The chrisitian ideal is 0. 0 means that youre neighbour is just as important as you.
Now that is a bit problematic. Sports would be very boring to watch, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that's a mistake. There's no reason why it should be true and from my own (vast in this case) experience it makes sport more interesting.

I can't see any real problem with thinking others are as important as yourself. Its kinda obviously true.

chez

[valenzuela]

The point I want to make with my post is that christian ideals are nonsense.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
The point I want to make with my post is that christian ideals are nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]
I pretty much disagree. I think the ideals are fine as ideals go. Need to add in some self-defense but that's not inconsistant with the ideal of equal importance.

chez

[Praxis101]

I've got an interesting scenario, and am curious where you'd place this on your continuum.

FWIW - as a disclaimer, I suppose - I agree with you in that many of the common Christian ideals in America today limit the productivity of society as a whole and limit the individual to a certain extent (for those who do not truly study the religion, this is probably even more true.) This is based on my very limited understanding of Christianity in general, but I'm going to give it a whirl anywho.

There are exceptions, IMO, for those who are truly interested in reading-between-the-lines and discovering the true intentions of the Bible's author(s) (the real meaning.) I conceive that the continuum may prove invalid in assessing these individuals.

Einstein, IMO, lived his life in complete selfishness while maintaining "love your others" to the fullest extent as well.
- The man spent his life exploring reality, educating himself, empowering himself. When one rises to assume the capabilities which Einstein possessed (and yes, I think that it takes a lot of philosophical vigor and time/energy spent to rise to his level of understanding), I can only imagine it is a powerful feeling. I, personally, would call Einstein an extremely powerful individual.

- From my knowledge of the man (which is limited), I tend to imagine him as a very happy being. The photos I see of Einstein, along with his many playful and useful quotes, project a man filled with joy.
Happiness: what is more selfish than seeking self-pleasure?

And here the two coincide: Doesn't Einstein rival amongst the most influential figures in mankind's history? The man's accomplishments were recognized immediately as valuable, and his speculation remains as perhaps the most widely referenced literature in the physics world.
- I'd call that loving others to the maximum! (as his life was spent building to the point where he could really help others as much as his potential would allow.)

The man looked down on the education system present in his time, though - he thought a free-er environment was necessary in order to build true, valuable knowledge and understanding. Probably wasn't too fond of Christianity's general lay-down-the-law attitude in this respect, either.

Meaning: he seemed to agree with the "love your god" & "love your others" statements, but didn't like the fact that individuals were inhibited in the search for the understanding themselves (and, rather, were forced others' renditions of truth.) I think Einstein's example shows universal caring - that includes the weak as well...

[Praxis101]

[ QUOTE ]
Jesus himself said that we should love others the same as we love ourselves, that sentence should be a reason strong enough to not be christian. Chrisitanity simply doesnt fit with the real world.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think my above post is also aimed at addressing this idea -
Simply curious how you think Einstein fits in here, as well. I view his love for all humans as roughly equal to his love for himself(though we may not agree on this.)

Maximize value for the species seems to = maximum self-pleasure, and thus the two statements can work together (this is the idea I'm currently throwing around.)

AND, just in an effort to be clear, I agree with nearly all of your points - including that Selfishness is a good thing. Just curious what you think [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Friedrich888]

"Another reason why we need a high VSQ its because of reproduction .
If Jimmy and Bob fall in love with Mary. Jimmy will now see Bob as a rival, that is necesarry because if Jimmy doesnt have an absolute desire to defeat Bob in the conquest on Mary then a sub-par reproduction could happen.( we need individuals to be 100% focused on getting the person they love, the way to achieve that is with high 100% VQS)
The only way for Jimmy to have an absolute desire to defeat Bob in the conquest of Mary is for him to have a VSQ that is high enough on the first place."

By this argument we would all be descended from rapists by now because they would be the most successfull at getting to Mary first.

[luckyme]

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By this argument we would all be descended from rapists by now because they would be the most successfull at getting to Mary first.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, there is the problem of getting by the Alpha male alive.

luckyme