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  #1  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:10 AM
vixticator vixticator is offline
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Default Best way to combat cbets?

For the sake of argument you call K9s here some percent of the time. Opponent seems good, possible 2p2 or w/e. I assume all of these options should be used (with one exception) the question is which one most of the time and how often for the rest.

Assume opponent bets entire range on flop for purpose of this question. Three handed, whatever. That's not really the issue either. Button vs BB (this is a 3bet PF and a fold sometimes too IMO). This is a HEAVILY modified example of a real hand so I might [censored] up changing things around:

1.
SB ($31.45)
Button ($21.70)
Hero ($26.20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $0.8</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.55.

Flop: ($1.60) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $1.5</font>, Hero calls $1.5.

Turn: ($4.60) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3.5</font>


2.
Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $0.8</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.55.

Flop: ($1.60) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $1.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>


3.
Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $0.8</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.55.

Flop: ($1.60) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $1.5</font>, Hero calls $1.5.

Turn: ($4.60) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $3.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $9.75</font> (or call)


4.
Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $0.8</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls $0.55.

Flop: ($1.60) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $1.5</font>, <font color="#666666">Hero folds</font>


----------------

Which is best, how often? How important is OUR image? Etc. I think this is a decent topic. If you always fold K9s PF here uh pretend it's something you might cold call. If you never cold call then meh, lol. If you disagree with bet sizes ignore it, pretend it's a better amount. Mmmmk? And. Go.

edit: I want to add one where we call down and one where we fold to a river bet but don't want to be redundant.
Alright, I edited like 20x so it should be looking good now.
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:35 AM
n4rf n4rf is offline
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Default Re: Best way to combat cbets?

#4 definteily seems like the line I would take, but I wouldn't play K9 OOP in the first place :\... worst hands to play OOP. In position I have absolutely no problem playing this hand, and will probably call a flop to see how he reacts on the turn. Sometimes I will raise his c-bet if it's a very high % cbet.
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:37 AM
vixticator vixticator is offline
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Default Re: Best way to combat cbets?

[ QUOTE ]
#4 definteily seems like the line I would take, but I wouldn't play K9 OOP in the first place :\... worst hands to play OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]Nooooooo. You have KJs and decided not to 3bet. Pick a hand that you will call SOME amount of the time with. Pretend you have 99 and the flop is A74. Ignore my exact example.
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:39 AM
PerDoom PerDoom is offline
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Default Re: Best way to combat cbets?

I dislike all 4. You have a way ahead way behind hand, and the board isn't really one people 2barrel. Just call flop and check/fold turn.

Also I think preflop sucks.
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:43 AM
creamfillin creamfillin is offline
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Default Re: Best way to combat cbets?

[PF]
I really hate calling PF with a hand that doesn't flop very well OOP. I 3-bet this arr-day.
[/PF]


I think c/c c/f is the line to take hear on this flop texture. Sometimes I'll call the flop and donk the turn if I think he will call with another piece of the board or draw. On this flop his range is polarized to an Ax or very little.
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  #6  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:45 AM
Dak9885 Dak9885 is offline
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Default Re: Best way to combat cbets?

Every spot like this will be a read (stat) based decision. Like above poster said, be selective out of position. Marginal hands always result in difficult spots.

Since I multitable and need to keep my decisions quick, I find it easiest to only defend with high implied odds hands. They are easy to play and +ev. Everything else is a 3bet or fold.

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  #7  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:49 AM
vixticator vixticator is offline
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Default Re: Best way to combat cbets?

[ QUOTE ]
I dislike all 4. You have a way ahead way behind hand, and the board isn't really one people 2barrel. Just call flop and check/fold turn.

Also I think preflop sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]It's three handed, I think folding PF is terrible. 3betting &gt; calling IMO but folding worst of all. Yeah, c/f turn was going to be another line... it's amazing how many lines there are available. This is a thought experiment.

edit: I don't think you should 3bet 100% of the time against a good player with marginal hands from the blinds. I also disagree that you should either 3bet or fold. Calling SOME amount of the time cannot be bad.
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  #8  
Old 12-01-2007, 09:21 AM
Dak9885 Dak9885 is offline
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Default Re: Best way to combat cbets?

my advice is based on my 6max strat. sorry op.
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  #9  
Old 12-01-2007, 09:27 AM
Fetzi Fetzi is offline
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Default Re: Best way to combat cbets?

Then dont even post @ all?

@ topic: I usually fold or 3-bet this preflop and barrel on almost any board if called.
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2007, 09:50 AM
corsakh corsakh is offline
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Default Re: Best way to combat cbets?

Its important to know why are you calling this preflop. For no particular reason is a leak. Once you figure out "why", the rest of the hand is an autopilot.
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