The Life Cycle of a Poker Player (and my thoughts on live vs online)

[STA654]

Garry Kasparov should take up poker imo.

[good2cu]

Brandon,
You and Phil are my favorite poker writers. Keep up the good work.

On an added note I already have a personal assistant and personal trainer to help me stay focused on poker. Upon relocating to Vegas I plan on hiring a psychologist, a coach and perhaps even a manger to further help me with my game and help me avoid some of the temptations of being a poker pro.

[nycballer]

everything is good except the part about live NL pros beating internet pros in a live deep stacked game. the live NL pros are beating soft games, none of them have been able to win in big games online, when they do my opinion will change.

and its ridiculous to think that the only part great about aba is his analytical skills and that his "instincts" aren't on the level of kenny tran(lol)

[Deewhizzle]

Wow!! check out the writing skillz on BA...in all seriousness though, awsome,awsome post sir, Much respect. this fourm needs more thoughout provoking post as such.
again thank you.

[Nick Rivers]

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The level of skill that Gary Kasparov in his prime exhibited on a chess table has never been matched by anyone on the green felt. This is open to argument, but I believe it to be obviously true and I think there is a deep reason for it. Poker wears people down.
Forget for a moment the degeneracy that surrounds poker. The poker world is rife with addiction, drug and alcohol use, depression, and sleep deprivation, but we will ignore for a moment the effect of these things on one’s abilities over time.

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The chess world is rife with addiction, drug and alcohol use, depression, and sleep deprivation as well. Professional chess players are every bit the degenerates that professional poker players are so, in that sense, this aspect of the contrast between chess and poker is invalid.

[Joseph Hewes]

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so what does Nick have to do with this?

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[jogsxyz]

Makes much more sense to compare poker to bridge. In bridge the top players play well into their sixties and seventies. Over fifty, players will no longer be able to play at a high level for 16 hours a day. But if they restrict their play to 8 hours a day they can.

[kemystery]

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so what does Nick have to do with this?

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Nick is the example given of an online player that is on a similar level to the 'upper level' live pros

[Dire]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The level of skill that Gary Kasparov in his prime exhibited on a chess table has never been matched by anyone on the green felt. This is open to argument, but I believe it to be obviously true and I think there is a deep reason for it. Poker wears people down.
Forget for a moment the degeneracy that surrounds poker. The poker world is rife with addiction, drug and alcohol use, depression, and sleep deprivation, but we will ignore for a moment the effect of these things on one’s abilities over time.

[/ QUOTE ]

The chess world is rife with addiction, drug and alcohol use, depression, and sleep deprivation as well. Professional chess players are every bit the degenerates that professional poker players are so, in that sense, this aspect of the contrast between chess and poker is invalid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was just about to say the exact same thing. It is extremely naive to say the chess world is significantly more 'pure' than poker. Many, and perhaps the majority of, world class chess players are just complete degenerates. Chess is another game that can just really take over your life. Players ending their lives alone, mentally deranged, impovershed, and with substance abuse problems is far from uncommon. Not a good comparison at all.

[Somnius]

[ QUOTE ]
There are mounds of evidence suggesting that even relatively mild stress can damage the brain’s frontal lobes and impair learning and memory.
It’s well known that brain function (especially the ability to learn new skills) declines with age, starting at about age nineteen. I’m speculating that poker accelerates this process, but we should expect strong life cycle tendencies even if this is not the case.

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Although the neurophysiological hormonal fluctuations of the poker player may be more dramatic, or more prevalent then the average professional, is it not worth noting that poker also comes with a great decrease in stressors very prevalent in the traditional acceleration of career x or in academia?

It's almost as if a poker player's neurobiological life cycle may be condensed on one hand, but lengthened on another.

Stressors such as waking up at a certain time (early), working under a boss, meeting deadlines, forced geographical constants, regimented time dispersion through the day with pronounced lack of control...all these stressors are virtually eliminated from the poker player's life cycle.

Of course, the potential for general gambling/"free-living" negative tendencies such as addiction, drug and alcohol abuse, extremely unregimented living etc are all very likely. Nevertheless, acknowledging all factors in the equation, can it really be simply said that the life of a poker pro will bring about the expected neurodegeneration and/or life cycle deconstruction any faster then the multitude of other careers and paths that are both cause and effect to highly motivated, highly achieving, more stressed-living individuals?

Although more of a rhetorical question, it is a worthwhile consideration in your notion that top players of the future need begin their path of mastery around the same time the frontal lobes start earning their place at the front of the line. If the lack of stressors readily available in the traditional career make up for the inclusion of potential stressors that follow a poker pro around, then perhaps it doesn't need to be so different.

As you mentioned, proper bankroll management is of course a key consideration. Lack of addiction also an important factor in halting the stress-induced frontal lobe degradation.

All careers have their stressors, all high-level achieving is not without dire cost to our health. Poker allows for even more life control and thus potentially less stress responses then most other professional endeavours. Of course, we're not robots, it's not as simple as it is on paper, and generally, most will allow the potential negatives of a "free-life", a life of "gambling" to become very much a reality and potentially confirm your speculation.

The top poker players of the future will see it very much as a business like any other, and be disciplined enough to approach it as the "robot" described above.